Aussie Beer

Being from Western Australia I was shocked to find out that people overseas basically think Australian beer isn't really much good. I know from my experiences here in Europe (I'm in the UK these days) that Europe offers some the best beers in the world.

But I still like our beer - Boags, Swan draught, Tooheys, etc.

I guess the beer can be a little dry at times - what is your opinion? Are there any visitors to Australia that can offer an opinion?

Eamonn

Reply to
Foles
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I found Australia pretty rough, beer-wise. I hated VB. Some beergeeks like the Coopers products but I couldn't get into them. Michael Jackson has raved about the Malt Shovel products, especially the porter, but it's got nothing on the better US microbrewed porters -- or even Speight's Porter from New Zealand. I have to be honest, I found New Zealand more congenial, beer-wise. They've got two (that's all I could find) good bottled beers: Speight's Porter and Malt Mac (a Scotch Ale, astonishingly robust by NZ standards). And then there's the Shakespeare Tavern in downtown Auckland, which has two fantastic strong dark ales: Pistols Old Soldier and King Lear.

Reply to
Kenji

Ok, we can both agree that VB is crap. But some of our lagers arent too bad, such as tooheys new/old, boags and cascade. I especially miss them when drinking lager on tap in London. They can be very bad and vary so much from pub to pub. Never been to NZ but I will get there eventually.

I enjoyed drinking in the US - Sam Adams is quite a good drop

Kenji wrote:

Reply to
Foles

I found a couple of bottles of Toohey's New on my last trip to Colorado and they were pretty good.(That was my staple beer when I lived in Oz)

I have fond memories of the Old. I wish I had drank that one more often.

I think James Squire Pale and Porter are good beers....

Reply to
Bill Becker

Fixed my post.

Reply to
Bill Becker

I haven't made it to Oz yet, and my experience with Australian beers is pretty well limited to some Cooper's and some Sheaf (well, Foster's, too, which I try to forget as much as possible). So, I don't know if there's anything more going on with Aussie lagers than your standard lagers you get throughout much of the rest of the world.

I do know, however, that the bulk of the lagers sold in the UK are atrocious. Most mass-produced lowest-common-denominator lagers are. As bad as some of the ones we have here in the States are, I daresay that the likes of Carling and Carlsberg are even worse. So it is indeed a lager wasteland there.

But there are some excpetions. In London, I frequently saw Budvar on offer. That's the Czech Budweiser - which tastes not at all like the Yank one. It's an excellent drop. Don't know how it compares with Aussie ones, but it's got a whole lot more going on than the big C lagers or the American Bud.

One question: you mentioned elsewhere in the thread you haven't gotten on board with the ale thing. What have you had so far, and what is it about them you don't like? Personally, I think there's nothing I'd rather have than a quality pint of bitter, and I've had the good fortune to drink throughout the world's best beer countries (that would be Belgium, Czech Republic, Germany and, believe it or not, the States). But there are definitely some bad ales out there as well. Especially in London, it seems.

-Steve

Reply to
Steve Jackson

I dont know what it is about bitters I cant stomach - i think its the bitter taste itself. I dont mind a pint of Fullers Discovery or Honey Dew every now and again. And I like Stout. I think I'll give a Youngs bitter another try during my next visit to the Dog and Bull in Croydon.

Its funny you bring up the lager thing in the UK. It can vary so much from pub to pub and I dont know why. Standard drinkable lagers such as Carlsberg become horrendous at times, especially compared to the same beer served on the continent. Is it incompetent bar staff, hard water or what? I even had a bottle of Stella Artois today that tasted terrible. Given bottles are usually consistent in quality I was shocked to find it flat and foul tasting. It is brewed in the UK I guess.

Back to Aussie beers - my original point was more along the lines that they are consistently good without being great. And the pubs know how to serve them on draught. I am shocked when some brits in Australia complain about them. Especially given better beers (such as stella and carlsberg when brewed / served in their own countries) are horrible 50% of the time in the UK.

Had my first Westmalle Tripel on saturday night - A nice experience indeed!

Eamonn

Steve Jacks>

Reply to
Foles

Yeah, most of the lagers in the UK are brewed specially for the UK market and can vary noticeably from their Continental counterparts. Sometimes different contract brewers have different parts of the country for the same beer as well (I believe that was the case with Holsten, IIRC), causing even further variation.

Bottles can be dodgy because there's more opportunity to abuse them than kegs. Whereas kegs are usually kept refrigerated throughout their distribution, bottles often are not. So I'm not surprised you got a nasty bottle.

That is a great one.

Just thought of something. Not sure what part of London you're in, but there are a couple spots you may want to check out to do some sampling and see if there are some ales that work for you, or if it's just something that won't. The White Horse in Parson's Green has an extensive selection of cask ales, and you'll get a chance to see how much vareity there can be in bitter (as well as expeirence some other pulled ales that aren't bitter). It could be that you just don't like the particular bitters you've had.

Another suggestion is the Porter House in Covent Garden, since you mentioned you like stouts. They have a variety of, appropriately enough, porters as well as stouts, and they're quite good.

-Steve

Reply to
Steve Jackson

Cheers Steve,

Ill try and drop in at the White Horse, and give the pulled Ales a fair trial. As for the porterhouse Ive been there a few times, my favourite being the plain porter. Now you've mentioned it I think I am due for a visit there. I've actually been to the one in Dublin as well. I've been meaning to try their german style pilsners.

Are you a Londoner? If so, the dovetail in Clerkenwell may be worth your time - Best Belgian bar I have been to in UK

Thanks for the advice.

Eamonn

Steve Jacks>

Reply to
Foles

You'll want to do that soon. There are changes in store at the WH, and the result may not be good for the range and quality of ales on offer. The WH will also be doing a winter ales mini-fest later this month.

There are other good venues for real ale in London, too; the Star Tavern in Belgravia has Fuller's ales in good condition, for instance. The Lamb, an easy walk from Russell Square tube, has Young's (oops, I mean Wells and Young's-brewed "Young's") on in good condition. The Head of Steam, very near to Euston Station, is now a Fuller's house but has a very good "guest ales" policy. The Wenlock Arms in Wenlock Road, N1, is well regarded, as is a venue that I think Steve J knows well, the Churchill Arms in Kensington. The Ship and Shovel, very near to Charing Cross Station, is home to Hall & Woodhouse's Badger ales, and worth a stop.

Non-Londoners tend to decry London for having too many beer venues with badly-kept beer, poor selection, and high prices. They are too often right, but with care, you can find a good drop here and there.

I had the Pilsner at the London Porterhouse a while back. They don't skimp on the hops. Don't know if the Freedom brewery/pub is still around - if so, the Pilsner there was pretty good too.

The beers are the London Porterhouse are generally decent, but it's not a place to go in search of cask ales; just about everything there is a "keg" version, IIRC, unless things have changed in relatively recent times.

I'll let Steve answer the question about whether or not he's a Londoner, but: been out to Beer Circus in Croydon yet?

Reply to
dgs

Nope, I'm a Yank and in Los Angeles. But, I've been to London a few times and have this habit of seeking out good beer venues most places I travel.

Thanks for the heads-up on the Dovetail; I'll keep it in mind. Although, I've had the good fortune to spend ample time in some of Belgium's own top beer bars, so if I go that far I usually end up just going the extra hour (although I'll be in the UK this spring with no trips across the Channel planned, so I'll keep it on the potentials list). Speaking of which, you owe it to yourself to cram yourself into an EasyJet for a cheap flight over to Belgium to do some drinking, and eating, at the source. This time of year is actually prime for one of my absolute favorite meals in the world: steamed mussels and a plate of frites (chips or fries, if you prefer). And the beer choices and quality are every bit as good as you can imagine, especially if you know the right places to hit.

No problem.

-Steve

Reply to
Steve Jackson

Tease. What's going on there?

Yep, know that one well, and it is an excellent venue for one of my favorites, Fuller's.

It can be a challenge, yes, and I've had some truly atrocious beer in London. But it can be found.

The main reason I recommended the White Horse, of course, is there aren't many other options for sampling such a wide variety of beers, since it's not a tied house (or at least wasn't - is that part of teh change you were alluding to, or is it just that it's going downhill being just one piece in a larger pub empire?). I'm not aware of many other choices - or any - for that type of selection.

From what I recall, the porter and stout-style beers were pulled, and the German-style beers, the red, etc. were kegged. But it's been a couple years now since I've been there, and the evening did get to a point of not remembering a lot of things clearly.

-Steve

Reply to
Steve Jackson

Ill take note of all these places. As for the beer circus, I just happen to work about 50m from the place. A few of us from work were in there on Wednesday night funny enough. Its quite good although there is a scary for sale sign outside the place.

Eamonn

Reply to
Foles

Steve - As it happens my fiancee and I have a eurostar fare booked for february 2-4. We have decided to go to Ghent. Any recommendations? We've been to Brussels but it was before I got the taste for Belgian beer. Also looking for good shops for beer to take home. I've been to Beer Mania near the Grand place in Brussels. Although it might be more of a tourist place?

Eamonn

Steve Jacks>

Reply to
Foles

Note that manager Mark Dorber also is heavily involved in another pub, the Anchor, in Suffolk, which also happens to much closer to his current family residence. The term "burnout" comes to mind.

The White Horse isn't, and wasn't, a free house. It's been part of the Mitchells & Butlers estate for, um, yonks. Wasn't so long ago that the WH was one of the best places in London for a guaranteed good pint of Draught Bass.

Due credit goes to the pub's management for its exemplary guest beer policy, which makes the WH seem like a free house.

Reply to
dgs

I suggest to anyone that if you are a lager drinker, then start your ale journey with Bass Ale. It's remarkably consistent and will ramp you up properly. Once accustomed to Bass you will naturally seek out more bitter ales and then the fun starts.

Reply to
Dan

I loved Ghent, by the way. Nearly as pretty as Bruges, without so many damned tourists.

I'm going to have to do some digging to remember where it was I went. But there seemed to be several places full of character as well as good beer. The best places I remember were on the east bank of the river through the old medieval part of town, just a bit north of the big church that's close to the river. (I'm wondering if I could possibly be any less helpful with my vague descriptions; maybe Joris can jump in and save me.) I also recall a store in this area with shelves in the windows literally sagging from the weight of all the bottles.

I'll see if my friends on this trip can recall names of any of the places we went. Just rest assured that if you find a place on the east bank of the river (although now I'm thinking it may have been on the peninsula between the two) that is at the bottom level of a building that seems about to fall in upon itself - either it or the square it's on are named after the fact that hangings used to take place there - you've found an excellent place both in terms of beer and atmosphere.

It's been too long since I've been in Brussels for me remember place names much anymore. A lot of the places around the Grand' Place are indeed touristy, although much of La Rue des Bouchers is exponentially more so (even though one of the best restaurants in town, Les Armes de Bruxelles, is more or less along there), but you don't have to wander too far afield to find nice little neighborhood cafes that serve a good selection.

-Steve

Reply to
Steve Jackson

Good point. I was working off a map when I wrote that didn't really show canals, and in my haste I totally forgot the canals running all over the place. Definitely makes my orientation clues pretty useless.

I do believe that is the place I was thinking of. Outstanding character, if it's the place I'm thinking of, as well as an entirely satisfying selection.

I recall several places we'd just duck into because they looked interesting, or because it was one of those days where it would rain for half an hour, be fine for 45 minutes, pour for 14, be dry for an hour, rain again for half an hour, etc., so there was plenty of opportunity to duck in and out of places.

And that is one of the charms of Belgium: it seems that even in a place that's not a great beer destination, there is still enough interesting stuff on offer that the odds of finding an enjoyable beer are quite high.

-Steve

Reply to
Steve Jackson

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