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Re: Keg Volume

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So that's why Bud gives me a headache.

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Grocery store prices are comparable, nearly a buck a bottle. It's the
keg prices that are significantly different. A keg of Shiner Bock
sells for $86 at the cheapest outlet I can find in Houston, whereas
Zeig sells for $64, Lone Star for $60, Bud for $72.

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A-B has a big brewery in Houston - the only brewery left here. They
changed the name to "Zeigenbock Amber, made only in Texas".

We went from Shiner Bock to Lone Star, which isn't all that bad - I
was surprised. I would drink it before BudMiller any day. That keg
just bit the dust so tonight we will put in a keg of Zeig. We tried it
out in bottles to make sure we could drink it, and we did a
side-by-side comparison with Shiner Bock. Three people said there was
so little difference that it was not worth paying extra for Shiner.

We'll see.



Re: Keg Volume
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...

   Zeigenbock tastes much cleaner (less corn, I wager),
acetaldehyde aside.
--
Joel Plutchak                "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
plutchak at [...]    

Re: Keg Volume
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:20:21 +0000 (UTC), plutchak@see.headers (Joel)
wrote:

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We did a side-by-side comparison of Zeig with Shiner Bock and we could
not tell enough of a difference to justify the much higher cost of
Shiner Bock ($86 vs. $64).

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The probably make it up with rice.

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Nasty stuff - the byproduct of ethanol oxidation - responsible for the
hangover.

There ought to be a law that every bottle of beer must contain an
aspirin.

I'll bet as a class of people, beer drinkers have fewer cardiac
moments, because they regularly consume aspirin.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin


Re: Keg Volume

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lol. And yet, I found the Zeigenbock I tried(bottled) to be bordering on the
undrinkable.
Shiner Bock? I just had a couple of bottles of it after attending the GABF
and it twasn't bad at all.

Best regards,
Bill



Re: Keg Volume

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I find the Shiner pretty much undrinkable. I can't stand that enormous corn
flavor. Havne't had the Zeignbock to compare. Not in a hurry to get around
to that.

-Steve



Re: Keg Volume

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And I rather like the Shiner Bock. Had it on draught at the Falling Rock,
and was agreably surprised. To me it has a very bready nose and palate,
which makes it quite in style with German Bocks.
Joris



Re: Keg Volume
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   Unless they've changed the beer in the past year or
two, the malt is wrong for a German bock-- caramel
malts and flabby domestic 2-row rather than tasty
German malts (including Munich).
--
Joel Plutchak                "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
plutchak at [...]    

Re: Keg Volume
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   One Shiner Bock is my limit, since after that the corn
starts really annoying me.  It works well as the liquid
when making baked beans, though.  Probably good in red
chili con carne, too.
   Ziegenbock tastes like Shiner Bock without the corn
(so it's more drinkable IMO).
--
Joel Plutchak                "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
plutchak at [...]    

Re: Keg Volume
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:06:56 +0000 (UTC), plutchak@see.headers (Joel)
wrote:

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I had pretty much had my fill of Shiner Bock when we emptied that keg.
I think it will be our last.

But the yups sure go for it. They also go for Velveeta cheese laced
with jalipinos on dried out corn chips too. <yuk>

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I sure hope so - we just tapped a keg last night.


--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin


Re: Keg Volume


On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Joel wrote:

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I haven't had the zeigenbock but I've always wondered if it wasn't merely
just Michelob Amber Bock with a different label.

Re: Keg Volume
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:14:59 -0400, Expletive Deleted

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Consider we're talking A-B it wouldn't surprise me

Re: Keg Volume
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:14:59 -0400, Expletive Deleted

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It is called "Zeigenbock Amber" in Texas.

I will have to try Michelob Amber Bock and compare now that I have a
keg of Zeig going.

BTW. what is the difference between Michelob and Budweiser in terms of
taste?


"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future."
--Niels Bohr

Re: Keg Volume
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   I tasted them side by side at the St. Louis brewery.
I found the Michelob to be a bit fuller in body and to
have a fuller malted barley flavor, versus a slightly
lighter and rougher/grainier flavor to the Bud.  Both
had what I consider too much carbonation-- I know the
style calls for relatively high CO2, but when it's the
prime characteristic it's just not enjoyable to me.
--
Joel Plutchak                "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
plutchak at [...]    

Re: Keg Volume
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:40:05 +0000 (UTC), plutchak@see.headers (Joel)
wrote:

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Bud tastes too much like breakfast cereal soaked in water. The grain
adjunct flavor is oppressive. I haven't drunk enough Michelob to have
an opinion.

FWIW, the keg Zeigenbock is good stuff - I can recommend it over keg
Shiner Bock (the bottled stuff for either of those is swill - keg is
the only way to go). The Shiner had a cloying off-flavor finish
whereas the Zeig has a pleasant finish.

I realize that Zeig is probably Michelob with a little roasted malt,
but I like it for now. Of course we still have 15 gallons left, so
I'll have to see what I think when the keg is empty.

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Can you relate the level of carbonization to something quantitative,
for example, the CO2 Volume shown in the chart on:

http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/ForceCarbonation.html
An educated guess will be better than nothing.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future."
--Niels Bohr

Re: Keg Volume
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   As the little chart says, I'd peg it around 2.5.

   I'm surprised they have Belgian ales listed as lower than
American lagers-- some of the Belgians I've had were more
carbonated than your typical NAIL.  And it works better for
the Belgians due to the higher body and flavor.
--
Joel Plutchak                "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
plutchak at [...]    

Re: Keg Volume
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:36:07 +0000 (UTC), plutchak@see.headers (Joel)
wrote:

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What volume would you consider enjoyable?

I am running about 2.2l. I measure the beer temp with a dairy
thermometer directly in the glass, not relying on the refrigerator
thermometer. There is about a 4F drop to the glass.

Normally I would want more carbonation only because I am used to it,
and this is the first time I have been able to control it in a
systematic way.


"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future."
--Niels Bohr

Re: Keg Volume

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It all depends on the style of beer. A highly carbonated doppelbock wouldn't
work well. A flat Tripel would be equally bleh.

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If you need to keep your system at constant pressure regardless of what
style you're serving, from what I recall of CO2 volumes and pressures, that
seems to be a reasonably good compromise.

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If you can, play around with the carbonation depending on style. A good
British-style bitter or pale ale really does benefit from lower carbonation
and warmer (mid-upper 40s to start if you're not used to the typical cellear
temp of around 50 or slightly higher). Many Belgian beers benefit from being
very spritzy (but you're not likely to get a lot of them in kegs anyway). A
good pilsner benefits from moderately high carbonation.

Carbonation levels really are as much a part of the style characteristics of
a beer as bitterness, maltiness, etc., IMO.

-Steve



Re: Keg Volume


On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Joel wrote:

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I was always under the impression that Michelob, as a so-called Premium
beer, had a slightly higher malt to adjunct ratio than Bud.


Re: Keg Volume
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   More than slightly higher malt/adjunct ratio. But
to me the difference was the ratio between 6-row and
2-row malted barley.  From memory jogged by googling
the HBD (and not guaranteed to be accurate):

   Bud:  33% rice, 53% 6-row barley, 13% 2-row barley
   Mich: 20% rice, 16% 6-row barley, 64% 2-row barley

Or to be a snobby beer geek about it, Michelob has a
lot more of what I expect from a beer-- smooth 2-row
malted barley.
--
Joel Plutchak                "Eat everything. Have fun." - Julia Child.
plutchak at [...]    

Re: Keg Volume
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:03:59 +0000 (UTC), plutchak@see.headers (Joel)
wrote:

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I used mash Klages, which is 2-row. It produced a very smooth ale.


"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future."
--Niels Bohr

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