My fellow Americans - Page 3

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Re: My fellow Americans


@trnddc02:

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And they created the flavor profile and forced it on the American drinker
by first paying bars to only carry their product, then by buying out other
breweries and then making only their beer.

Re: My fellow Americans


Bryon Lape wrote:
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Got the names of some of those "bought out" breweries?  I've been
studying the US brewing industry for decades and this is the first I
heard of this, as I asked "Phil" in the part of this thread copied below.

As noted, they DID buy the American Brewing Company of Miami, Fl. in
1958 and, due to an anti-trust ruling, sold it in 1960.  While they ran
it, they did continue to brew and market some American brands like Regal
Lager and Regal Ale.

Just a guess, but I don't think the added capacity and market share of
the "American Brewing Co., MIami, FL" is really the reason A-B's market
share went from 2-3% at Repeal to today's near 50%.

jesskidden@LYC0S.com wrote:
 > Phil wrote:
 >> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:40:28 -0700, yedyegiss
 >>
 >>
 >>> What have they done to other breweries that should be done to them?
 >>
 >> AB has bought out smaller breweries, only to shut them down.
 >
 > Cite?  When's the last time A-B did that?  They've bought into several
 > craft breweries, but all are still up and running (and doing relatively
 > well, thanks, in part, to being part of A-B superior distribution
 > chain).  They did buy the *brand names* "Rolling Rock" and "Latrobe
 > Brewing Co." in '06, and the owner of the brewery, InBev, sold the plant
 > in a separate deal, to City Brewing.  The brewery is up and brewing,
 > among others things, some Samuel Adams beers.
 >
 > Perhaps you're talking about A-B purchase of the American Brewing
 > Company in Miami, FL- in 1958?  They ran the brewery for several years,
 > but anti-trust regulators made them get rid of it.  It was bought by the
 > National Brewing Co. and closed in 1975.
 >
 > All the big breweries that specialized in "gobbling up" the small
 > breweries are gone. Falstaff, Heileman, Stroh, Pabst (survives in name
 > only- no breweries), Carling, National, Associated. Mostly because they
 > wound up with a lot of pre-Prohibition era, inefficient, high labor
 > cost, inner city breweries trying to compete with A-B's modern,
 > automated "beer factories".   In some respects, the government's trying
 > to regulate A-B's growth was the best thing that ever happened to them,
 > in that they built new, rather than purchase old, breweries.

Re: My fellow Americans


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   Brewing history in the US is a fascinating topic. I attended
a talk awhile back about the history of brewing in St. Louis,
dating back more the 150 years, and anyone who believes AB
simply "created a flavor profile" and foisted it on the public
using bullying tactics is simply ignorant.
--

Joel Plutchak                "Beer doesn't stain, if it's a light pilsner."
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com      - Sheldon Miller

Re: My fellow Americans


plutchak@see.headers (Joel) wrote in

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No, you are simply well endoctrinated.

Re: My fellow Americans


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   How so?  Be exact. Name names, and describe the market in the
late 1800's and early 1900s, and the impact of Prohibition on the
market.
--

Joel Plutchak                "Beer doesn't stain, if it's a light pilsner."
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com      - Sheldon Miller

Re: My fellow Americans


The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital
punishment for stupidity, but why don't
we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve
itself?

I'd expect that the Native Americans worked out their own brew - perhaps that
could be called a real American beer?







Bryon Lape wrote:

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Re: My fellow Americans



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I'm relatively postive that The United States does not have the market
cornered on stupidity. Having traveled to about 12 other countries, I have
found that particular trait and many other not so desirable character
attributes to be quite widespread amongst all countries and cultures......




Answer:  Because it disturbs the natural flow of the conversation
Question: Why is top-posting frowned upon in newsgroups....?



Re: My fellow Americans



">> Bryon Lape wrote:
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Ever heard about the expression "self-fulfilling prophecy"? So, if there's
something you don't understand, you call it stupidity of the other...



Re: My fellow Americans



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What you just wrote makes no sense whatsoever....how does self fulfilling
prophecy and widespread stupidity have anything to do with each other within
the point I made? If you're saying stupidity begats stupidity, well, I'm not
sure I can disagree with that one, however.....I was stating that simply
because you have met several stupid Americans....since I live here and I
work in customer service, I'm positive I've met dozens more than you, that
doesn't mean the people here are any more capable of inane and assinine acts
than those in Europe and Asia....

I understand it...apparently you do not...thus, here's the definition.

A self-fulfilling prophecy is a prediction that directly or indirectly
causes itself to become true. Although examples of such prophecies can be
found in literature as far back as ancient Greece and ancient India, it is
20th-century sociologist Robert K. Merton who is credited with coining the
expression "self-fulfilling prophecy" and formalizing its structure and
consequences. In his book Social Theory and Social Structure, Merton gives
as a feature of the self-fulfilling prophecy:

      " The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false
definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original
false conception come 'true'. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling
prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual
course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning.[1] "

In other words, a prophecy declared as truth when it is actually false may
sufficiently influence people, either through fear or logical confusion, so
that their reactions ultimately fulfill the once-false prophecy.



Re: My fellow Americans


Steve Jackson wrote:

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I'm seeing cwt pricing showing Louisiana rice at 17.28 per cwt, Montana
malting barley at 11.00 per cwt.  Considering how much the price of
malting barley has shot up in just the last year, rice is still no great
bargain to brewers, and the folks at Oregon's SakeOne who make Momokawa
certainly aren't getting any great price break, either.

A-B doesn't just buy plain ol' rice either.  Brewer's rice must be grown
to spec, just like high-quality malting barley, and that drives up the
price further.  Brewer's rice is *not* used because it's cheaper!

As far as Phil's "not something that you would see a true German brewery
do," give me a frackin' break.  Belgian breweries routinely do things in
brewing that would give some German brewers apoplexy.  German brewers
themselves used to do all sorts of interesting and imaginative things
until the Bavarians insisted that it was their way or the highway, back
when the country unified in the latter half of the 19th century.  One
region's brewers have been given special dispensation to revive a style
of beer that had effectively died out, and that style most assuredly
does *not* conform to any Reinheitsgebot (or similar) brewing practices.

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It's an infantile argument mechanism at best.  Argue the *facts* and we
might see something.  Argue opinions, and all we get is lame attempts
to substitue opinion for fact.

Re: My fellow Americans


On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:49:19 GMT, Steve Jackson

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjunct_(beer)


Phil

Re: My fellow Americans


Phil wrote:

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Wikipedia is a very handy resource.

It is far from authoritative.

In the case of current commodity prices, it's flat-out wrong in your
cited article.

-Steve

Re: My fellow Americans


On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:23:37 -0400, Phil wrote:
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Wikipedia?? Come on, if that's the only source you have it's like saying
"I overheard this guy on the bus ..."

Personally, I can't even drink Bud. I think it's nasty. But My *opinion*
is not fact. Neither is yours. AB is not evil. Disney is evil, Wal*Mart
is EVIL, but AB doesn't violate anti-trust laws or try to reclaim the
public domain to keep themselves in business. What they do is produce a
beer that a HUGE number of people enjoy, and they also produce a number
of "craft beers" at their big plants as well as supporting other
craft/micro brewers. They actually *like* the competition, as it makes
them have to improve their own products to stay competitive.

If you don't like thier beer, don't drink it. But you don't have to spit
on the people that do.

  Tom

--
TARogue (t a r o g u e (at) y a h o o . c o m)
   "So I hated life, because what is done under the sun was grievous
    to me; for all is vanity and a chasing after wind." Ecclesiastes 2:17

Re: My fellow Americans


On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 04:28:41 +0000 (UTC), look@my.sig (TARogue) wrote:


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With the exception of the above-mentioned prices, I haven't heard
anyone citing any information to back up what they're saying.  And I
don't even know what type of rice is referred to here.  Barley prices
aren't mentioned, but everyone's willing to agree that barley is less
expensive than corn.

And if you don't like the wikipedia citing, here...

http://beertown.org/education/dictionary.html#adjunct


Phil



Re: My fellow Americans


Phil wrote:

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You know, you're right.  You, for instance, haven't cited anything - not
a single damned solitary item of current pricing - that backs up what
you're saying.  Thanks for pointing that out.

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You don't?  If you're going to blather on about adjuncts, don't you
think you should at least bother reaserching the facts first?

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Barley's damned close to corn at current prices, actually, and once
again, you've got the discussion neatly wrong.  The discussion has been
centered around Anheuser-Busch and its principal brand, Budweiser, and
that brand's use of rice in brewing.  It's a fact that employing rice as
an adjunct is not a cheap way to go, but I'm pretty much fed up with
doing your research for you, and you're too damn stubborn to actually
bother looking it up, instead of crapflooding the newsgroup with
repeated web references to what adjuncts are.

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So what?


Re: My fellow Americans


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   Sheesh.  English grammar can sometimes be a bear, but
that definition certainly weakens your point.  Read it
a few more times, paying specific attention to conjunctions.
--

Joel Plutchak                "Beer doesn't stain, if it's a light pilsner."
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com      - Sheldon Miller

Re: My fellow Americans


look@my.sig (TARogue) wrote in

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Yes they have and no they don't.


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