The big merger - Page 2

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Re: The big merger


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   Nobody disputes that big brewers brew a lot of beer.
Nobody disputes that a lot of people buy and presumably
drink that beer. Nobody disputes that those big brewers
have achieved some form of success (although your implication
that success equates to volume has little merit; is an
independent Amish woodworker whose business produces hand-
crafted furniture on a local scale all his life less
successful than a huge factory that churns out cheap
plastic patio furniture?  I would assert the Amish guy
doesn't think so, nor do his customers).
   What is in dispute is that people are drinking all that
beer because it's really, really tasty.  We are asserting
that people drink NAIL because (a) it gets them buzzed,
(b) it has very little nasty beer-like flavor, (c) it's
cheap, and (d) it's marketed effectively (including predatory
practices, manipulation of the distributor system, manipulation
of the political system, etc.)
   And could you drop the "microbrew(w)" term?  It's rather
meaningless, and often simply incorrect as you use it. E.g.,
Sierra Nevada Brewing Company is by no means "micro," yet
they craft flavorful beer.
--
Joel Plutchak                   "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com            - Eric Cartman

Re: The big merger




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Burps. Truth to tell, I'm getting tired of this shouting match.
Just let you munch (if you know what I'm speaking of, that is) on one little
thing, in consideration of your remark above.

Ever heard of the Westvleteren Trappist abbey ales?




Re: The big merger


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So we are going to play a game of Guess The Beer now?  come on.......

Just so that you understand I enjoy well made tasty beers from a range
of brewers.   I've made several trips to a local new brasserie with
Belgian influence and an extensive list of beers.  I've not had a
Coors or Bud for a couple of decades but I realize there are a lot of
people who do enjoy them.  So I wish them well in their enjoyment of
well made light flavored beer.  As I wish you well in your enjoyment
of beers from wherever you call home.


Re: The big merger


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   Yes, that's what I stated.

   At this point I have to assume you're just arguing for
the sake of arguing.  I'll ignore your strawmen rantings
from hence forth.

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ObAdolescentNamecalling:
   Is everybody at the FDIC as unable to follow logic as are
you?  It's no wonder we're in an economic mess these days.
--
Joel Plutchak                   "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com            - Eric Cartman

Re: The big merger



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Can't speak for Dick, but for me: nope. Never once did I say the big
American lagers were undrinkable nor swill.

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Nope. Never said that. In fact, I have said many, many times over the years
(not in this thread) that they are some of the most proficient beer makers
on the planet. I may not personally choose to drink what they produce, but I
don't for a second question that they know how to produce beer.

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Except when we don't even say any of the nonesense you claim is being said.

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It would help the discussion a lot if you'd brush up on your reading
comprehension and address what's actually said, and not the straw men you
construct.

Or, of course, please show me where I've said "swill," "undrinkable," talked
about why what I drink is better, or anything of the sort. I won't hold my
breath waiting for your "proof."

All I said is that these companies succedd by providing a product that most
people want. And a big part of why they want that product is because they
know what it is, they know they like it, and they know it's not going to be
different. And for many people, that's fine. That's all they need.

Nowhere in there is there any comment about the quality of the product they
like. The only thing that could be faintly interpreted that way is my use of
the adjective "subpar" when citing McDonald's and the quality of their
burgers.

Again, you've constructed an argument that no one has made, through whatever
biases and suppositions you're bringing to the table. You seem to think that
my pointing out that many people prefer to stick with what's predictable and
known as a bad thing, and you've conflated that into a bunch of nonsense
that I never said. I never said it was a bad thing for people to stick with
what's known, and your interpretation of it as such says more about your
attitudes to people who make that choice than mine. You're the only one
acting as if it's a shameful thing to have said.

Oh, and you know what: I kind of like Coors. I don't drink it much, but I
certainly didn't mind it when I visited relatives in Denver recently and
that's what they had. And when I used to play softball regularly, I drank
all sorts of big-brand beers. And liked it, because it was refreshing on a
hot, humid summer's day. Please try to prevent your head exploding from
trying to wrap that around this nice little straw man you've constructed.

-Steve



Re: The big merger



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Wow. Did you ever miss the point.

Other than the use of sub-par - and, btw, I just had a McDonald's burger - I
didn't make any value judgements. In fact, my point was that just because
some of us prefer things that are outside the mainstream, there are a great
many people out there who enjoy things that they know what they're getting
and prefer that over taking the risk that something may be better, or may be
worse.

You had originally asked how Bud, Miller, etc. had "convince(d) great
numbers of the american public to drink and enjoy their products if all they
are selling is 'swill'." I responded by saying that they did so by giving
people a product that they want and value.

You're the one reading value judgements into my statement that many people
value predictability over the chance to maybe get something better. I didn't
say predictability is bad. I personally, in a lot of parts of my life,
prefer the risk, but that's just me. And there are areas where I definitely
don't and value predictability and consistency, while others like the risk.
It's just different ways of viewing things.

And there are products out there that meet the needs of those who want
consistency, just as there are products out there that meet the needs of
those who want something more adventurous.

That was the point. And it flew right by you.

-Steve




Re: The big merger


wrote:
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I'm not sure if you are ignoring the point intentionally or just don't
see it.  When you talk about sub par and people not wanting better how
more value laden can your observations about the consuming habits most
of the populationfbe!  Good grief - don't you even read what you
post?????


Re: The big merger



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I acknowledged that "subpar" conveys a value statement.

OK, I suppose "better" could be a value statement. I refuse to be a
Barneyist and delcare that all foodstuffs and beverages are equally good.
They're not. Period.

However, you'll note that I never said it's a bad thing to like something
that's not of higher quality compared to some available other options (in
part because "quality" is beyond subjective), nor that everyone should like
the same things I like. Personally, I think wanting to opt for the
consistent is just as valid a choice as opting for the riskier, but
potentially more rewarding, choice.

And that's where you're missing the point. You've declared I've made value
judgements about people's choices, and not simply about products. For the
record, I find nothing wrong whatsoever with someone choosing Bud or Miller
over Victory or Goose Island. That's they're choice. Not the one I'd make
most of the time, but I don't care. You're the one, in fact, who is casting
the perception that someone's choosing the consisent, predictable
alternative is somehow shameful, given the defensive way you've reacted to
that simple statement of fact.

-Steve



Re: The big merger


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   Budweiser, Twinkies, Air Supply, Taco Bell, Britney Spears,
reality TV, McDonald's, Ford cars, etc.  The public as a whole
simply doesn't have good taste.  In anything.
--
Joel Plutchak                   "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com            - Eric Cartman

Re: The big merger


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   You're propping up a straw man here.  Dick didn't say nobody
liked the swill (see above), he simply labeled it swill.

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   I believe that "popular" beer is a very well made product--
clean, consistent, brewed to exacting specifications from
quality ingredients.  I have toured the headquarters plant of
the biggest US brewer at least twice.  As a homebrewer and
beer lover I was quite honestly awed by their operation.  I
also believe that they brew, at best, a product that is
uninteresting to the average informed, open-minded beer
aficionado.

   As an aside, some of the big brewers have come out with
specialty beers that are better than uninteresting (if less
than mind-blowing great), but they don't seem to last long on
the market.
--
Joel Plutchak                   "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com            - Eric Cartman

Re: The big merger


On Oct 16, 9:12 am, plutc...@see.headers (Joel) wrote:
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I agree.  The large brewers are clearly succesful at turning out a
huge amount of beer that is consistent in quality and it meets the
expectations of a lot of beer drinkers.  There are a lot of people who
enjoy what Serious Beer Drinkers might call a mild tasting beer.   A
confirmed Bud Lite drinker would likely find a good Hefe or IPA to be
overpowering and not to his liking.  I've enjoyed my beer much more
when focusing mostly on their good points.

And yes it is a good sign that the big brewers are taking an interest
in either brewing their own small batch beers or buying an interest in
a local brewery.


Re: The big merger


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Just throwing this out there from howstuffworks.com/beer:

"For 13 years, starting in 1920, a constitutional amendment banned the
production of alcoholic beverages in the United States. Before
Prohibition, America had thousands of breweries producing many
different types of beer. But Prohibition forced most breweries out of
business. By the time the laws were repealed in 1933, only the largest
breweries had survived. These breweries sought to brew a beer with
universal appeal so that it could be sold everywhere in the country.
And then came World War II. With food in short supply and many of the
men overseas, breweries started brewing a lighter style of beer that
is very common today. Since the early 1990s, small regional breweries
have made a comeback, popping up all over the United States, and
variety has increased."

It wasn't until 1978 that homebrewing was made federally legal and it
took a while for microbreweries to evolve back into existence in this
country.  I grew up in rural Michigan and didn't even know about the
variety of good beer available, until just a few years ago.  Most of
my family and friends are against it even now because it seems too
strong.  As hard as it may be to believe, they give me a hard time
about drinking micros, as if I think I'm too good for not drinking the
mass-produced bud lights, etc.


Re: The big merger


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...

   Thanks for adding that.  I take for granted that people
in the US discussing beer in a serious way know the history
of North American Industrial Lager (NAIL), and hence why
some dismiss it for what it is-- a blandification of a
traditional beer style to appeal to the lowest common
denominator.
--
Joel Plutchak                   "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com            - Eric Cartman

Re: The big merger


On Oct 22, 9:22 am, plutc...@see.headers (Joel) wrote:
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North American Industrial Beer is certainly a precise sounding name
and I'm sure it's history is quite interesting.  You seem to know a
lot about their beer.   Do you have a link to the NAIL website?  I
sure couldn't find one.


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