Unhappy with NY State keg law?

Of course they are. The Eeeevil Breweries (tm) back every stupid law that legislators can come up with. They think of it as a public service.

So... is it rocket science to figure out that maybe you should buy better beer in smaller kegs? "Pony" quarter-bbl kegs, sixth-bbl cylindrical kegs, and the like? What's the big deal?

I like three things:

1. The convenience of the half barrel: Every time I empty a keg, it involves a trip to the store, and a thorough cleaning of the beer lines (as they are then exposed to air). If I can do that half as often, I'm a happy camper.

1. Like everything else, buy in bulk, save a little money. The half barrel is cheaper for the same quality. If it matters, I'm a fan of Saranac Pale Ale. I don't need a better beer. I need a better state government.

2. Freedom: I like the 15.5 gallon keg, and it doesn't hurt anyone if I take my time emptying it. I don't need a better reason than that.

-Howard

Bravo!

Bravo again!

The big deal is it's a stupid law, Don. The deposit/registration fee? Fine. But a minimum return date? Flies with a sledgehammer, etc.

Not everyone sells in pony kegs, etc. - even "better" beers.

Not everyone with a name you don't recognize on Usenet is automatically a newbie idiot, Don.

-Steve

Yea, this is as bad as liquor laws get. I can't believe it if its true that the big brewers backed this...it seems that it would only hurt their sales...I mean, will consumers really be pushed into returning half-empty kegs within 30 days only to buy a new full one right away? or will they stop buying kegs?

While I too think it's a bad law, I don't find it that surprising that breweries backed it (if indeed they did). Individual purchasers of kegs has to be an incredibly small proportion of the keg purchases out there. Most are going to go to retail accounts, and then to parties where blowing it in

30 days isn't a big deal. The number of people buying kegs for personal consumption has got to be a tiny, tiny fraction of the beer/keg sales, so screwing those up probably isn't a big concern. Especially for the big breweries.

-Steve

Never said the law didn't suck ass.

Never said the law didn't suck ass.

And - I never said the law didn't suck ass. What I *did* say was that, in the face of ass-sucking new NY state laws regarding kegs, there has to be a way around them. Smaller measures is one of them.

Yes, the OP wishes he didn't have to put up with a state legislature that didn't kowtow to these stupid neoprohibitionist impulses. But the guy is stuck with it, and his options are limited. What ways does he have to immediately work around it. Let's see... he's forced to drink the standard half-bbl keg more quickly, which he doesn't want to do, because he'd prefer to drink in moderation. Other options? Smaller packages for the time being, if they can be found. More long-term options? Voting out the idiots who passed this law - fine if you can get others to go along with you. Or maybe voting with your feet - fine as long as you don't mind uprooting your whole life just to make a point about stupid laws on sales and deposits on keg beer.

I do hope the OP has made his opinion known to his area's state lawmakers, and that he has encouraged others to do the same. That's more likely to have some effect, however minimal, than posting about it on Usenet.

Oh, and there's that other option: take up homebrewing.

Yes, you're right, it isn't rocket science. The concept of smaller containers of beer is known to me. Thank you for making sure though.

Ph> So I'm looking for other disgruntled New York beer/keg drinkers. Rumor

So if you have any beer drinking buddies in New York that may not have heard of this stupidity yet, drop 'em a line. Feel free to pass them my email address. I can help them locate the names, addresses and phone numbers of the proper politicians. I'll owe you one.

Yup, I haven't brewed in about 8 years now. It was fun, but it did take up a lot of time. I still have the equipment. Just looking for the time...

-Howard

Why not buy a keg, drink the beer over a long time, forfeit the deposit, and keep the keg?. Then the next time you buy a keg of beer, transfer that beer into your first keg. Return the empty keg and you're done.

If they track by tags and you can do it, you can also simply switch tags. If they tags are "hard wired", so to speak, simply follow my suggestion above.

Chris

Yes, the law is easy to "cheat" on. That is, it is as ineffective as it is stupid.

That being said, the proper course of action is to work within the legal system, instead of go outlaw. Politicians are just people. They sometimes make stupid mistakes just like everyone else. And when they do, it is the citizen's responsibility to let them know.

-Howard

WHAT exactly are they trying to accomplish/prevent with this law?

I never understood the appeal of the home draft system- I like to have a selection of 10-20 different brands/styles to choose from when I go into the refrigerator/beer cellar and seldom drink more than 2 bottles of the same beer at a time.

And exactly how "fresh" is a keg that's been tapped for 30+ days?

Here is the MADD rationale.

Interestingly the MADD rationale does not include a timed return policy.

I've since found out that the bill was originally introduced by our Assembly with a 90 day return policy. Our Senate wasn't happy with that and amended the bill to 30 days. The Assembly rolled over on it.

I shouldn't publicly speculate on the New York Senate's motivation for insisting on such a change. I have a few uninformed theories.

Sampling /is/ fun.

One aspect of sampling that I've found entertaining is trying out my favorite beer from keg and bottle side by side. I find the difference more striking, than say the difference between bottled Budwiser and bottled Michelob (but YMMV).

Very fresh. In such a set up you want to put some non-oxidizing gas into the keg as you dispense the beer (as opposed to air). CO2 is popularly used for this purpose. It is very effective and economical. Last year I spent about $7 on CO2, and never had a keg go stale on me.

The key to keeping beer from going stale (besides use of CO2) is to be meticulous about clean beer lines. I clean my line after every keg while enjoying my last beer of the keg, before the beer has had a chance to dry inside the line. And I also replace the line once a year.

The key to conserving CO2 is to quit pouring as soon as you see and hear that you're dispensing a mixture of beer and gas (suddenly gets very foamy). Turn off the CO2 supply. And then there is plenty of pressure left in the keg to milk the last pint out, without emptying your CO2 supply.

-Howard

Well, here's MADD's (is that an ironic name or what) note on the subject:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Keg registration will reduce problems related to underage drinking:

• Drinking and driving * Violence and crime * Date rape, sexually-transmitted diseases and unplanned pregnancies.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jeez, *who* could be against THAT? Why didn't we think of this before? It's a cure-all! What about acne? I've got bad acne- will registering my keg and forfeiting my deposit cure that, too? I'm going to go out and buy a keg of registered beer today and solve all the evils of the world...

Candy Lightner of CA was the founder. Eventually, the org went national. She lost control of the national org and was relegated to a minor roll. It wasn't too many years later till her name popped up in the back pages of the local paper as having been busted. Do a google search.

Here's one of the first links I ran across:

It didn't say anything about her bust, but I didn't look too hard. Look for yourself. I'm still cooking for tomorrow. :)

nb

I spent some time looking, but couldn't find anything. I'm thinking it's an urban legend.

Phil

There's no doubt I read it in a local daily newspaper (not tabloid). I do recall that it didn't get picked up by the national press, which I found suprising. Now you've got me bug'n.

OTOH, is it any less ironic that Candy is now working against MADD:

"Maybe that's why in January of 1994, the founder of MADD, Lightner, began working for a liquor industry trade group in Washington, DC, - the American Beverage Institute. Lightner is now a lobbyist working against laws lowering the legal standard of drunk from .10 to .08. "I don't see it as [working for] the other side," said Lightner."

I found plenty that says how she left MADD, but nothing that says she was ever arrested for DWI or DUI. And I'm sure that, if this ever did happen, it would be posted everywhere by those against MADD.

Phil

What can I say? I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't read it cuz I wouldn't have known about it. If you've done enough reading about MADD you will have picked up on the fact that they are very powerful and have gone to great lengths to sanitize their image. Also, I know from experience the news media is not to be trusted. It is very possible I read a bogus story. But, there is no doubt I read it. Whether or not you wish to believe me is up to you. Like I said, you've got my curiosity up. I'm not gonna make this a high priority project, but I will do some research on it. If I find anything, one way or the other, I'll post it here ...eventually. :)

nb

I'm not arguing with you here (or anything about this group).

I'm sure you read something; I'm not accusing you of making this story up. But it appears you may have read someone else's made up story.

It's an urban legend.

Phil