Greene King IPA - How did it become a CBoB finalist?

I'm sure that this is the question that we all want answered. After all we can easily imagine a scenario where once entered GK IPA wins Best Bitter and comes second overall in the Champion Beer of Britain competition. A ringer cask of 'special' brew; bribery and corruption; nobbling the opposition; mass hysteria and hallucinations among the tasting panels; or just a set of judges who really, really love hop oil.

It could happen. But how on earth did GK IPA get in there in the first place? I think that I now have part of the answer.

Although I am a life member of CAMRA, and spent more years than I would care to mention as one of the main organisers of a very major CAMRA beer festival, I was always a bit sketchy about how beers were entered for consideration as possible Champion Beer of Britain.

I thought that it had to do with winning Beer of the Festival at local CAMRA beer festivals in the preceding year, together with nominations sent in by members once a year.

I have myself photo-copied the form in What's Brewing and posted off my selection to HQ many times. I've also fretted over the fact that our beer festival usually couldn't agree on a method to select a beer of the festival, and so didn't have one. I always thought that we were missing out on putting forward a beer into the CBoB process. I needn't have worried.

A chance meeting on the way to the match on Saturday with an old friend who is now somewhat up there in the CAMRA hierarchy has put me right on who chooses the beers. For a normal category of the CBoB of the eight beers under consideration one on average will have come from the winners of beer of the festival, one from the nominations sent in, and the other six from the CAMRA regional tasting panels.

This was something of a revelation to me. I had thought that the tasting panels mainly laboured long and hard over writing the official description for the beers in the Good Beer Guide. It hadn't ever occurred to me that these small groups of people had the major influence on what beers were entered into the CBoB competition.

So now we know how the first step towards this ridiculous and humiliating aberration occurred. The massive PR disaster of CAMRA's own 'Svengate' wasn't the fault of lots of drinkers at beer festivals up and down the country bizarrely overrating GK IPA, or of thousands of CAMRA members writing in and demanding that the king of the hop oil be considered worthy of the CBoB crown. No, it was all down to a tiny number of seriously deranged individuals on a CAMRA regional tasting panel.

To show how much damage these few people have done to the credibility of the CBoB competition, I am informed that the loud booing when the GK IPA result was announced at the GBBF came not just from bewildered ordinary real ale drinkers, but also from most of the brewers present.

Reply to
Michael Jones
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[good stuff snipped]

If any good is to come out of this disaster, it'll be the exposure of the whole CBOB mess. I have also been puzzled in the past about how beers were selected for this, and who was doing the judging, but as the selection has always been reasonable I haven't worried about it too much. I suspect Camra run it as a PR generator to grab media coverage for GBBF and Camra generally. The awards mean little to ordinary Camra members or even the brewers that win them (apart from GK of course :-))

This year the PR stunt has backfired catastrophically, and I think serious consideration should be given to scrapping it. I'm not a great fan of Beer of the Festival awards either, but at least they've been voted for by ordinary drinkers and aren't taken too seriously.

Best regards, Paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

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Reply to
Paul Sherwin

"Paul Sherwin" wrote

Another issue whose outcome I await with fascination is how will What's Brewing cover this debacle? Will it, as it should, reflect the outrage of the membership, with many letters and an editorial comment? Or will it pretend it never happened? Or is there some weaselly middle course (two mild letters, no editorial comment)?

Reply to
machaon

I wouldn't expect much outrage there. Wots Bruin invariably reports each GBBF as a huge success (whatever that means) - a bit like Pravda in the old USSR days. I too await the coverage with interest, especially in the advertising-led Beer section.

Best regards, Paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

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Reply to
Paul Sherwin

Hmmm. "weaselly middle course" "no editorial comment"

Not met the editor then?

Can't say I had Ted down as always toeing the party line...

Reply to
Steven Pampling

Michael Jones16/8/04 2:01 AM

(big snip of excellent stuff)

I am no kind of expert at all. But logically... and thinking of what is not just a celebration of our brewing heritage, but also a major commercial event, then surely this kind of thing will happen.

If it is not the fault of *seriously deranged individuals on a CAMRA regional tasting panel* perhaps it's because - every so often - a big brewer HAS to win in order to maintain the patronage, participation and financial contributions of the bigger players - whatever they might be?

If all the attentions of beer fans and the awards go only to the small boutique and micro brewers making small quantities in a back alleys, then surely the Festival will end up being sidelined by the bigger players?

Just a thought.

CR

Reply to
Chris Rockcliffe

I suspect this is close to the real explanation. However, the almost universal reaction of ordinary members suggests there's a limit to how much they'll tolerate sucking up to the big boys, regardless of what the people who run 'campaigns' think is good for Camra. Whatever next, John Smiths Smooth as champion bitter next year?

Time for a Truth and Reconcilation Commission I think.

Best regards, paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

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Reply to
Paul Sherwin

You appear to be suggesting (if not actually saying) that the result was fixed.

Would you care to avoid the vague comments and actually say what you mean? It would make it so much easier for the people concerned (Not me, I have no part in it whatsoever[1]) to produce a reply.

NB. Do note that "the people that run 'campaigns'" are not the same as the people that run CBoB and thus have what is commonly known as "bugger all" influence on the finalists in the competition.

[1] Or indeed in just about anything.
Reply to
Steven Pampling

Chris suggested it was fixed, and I agreed with her :-) Seriously, I think 'fixed' is too strong a word, but I'd like to learn a lot more about the opaque and convoluted selection and voting process before commenting further.

It's not possible to make specific criticisms or charges, because I don't understand the processes involved (and neither does anybody else I've discussed this with, either on the net or in the flesh).

Still, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck...

See the comments above.

Best regards, Paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

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Reply to
Paul Sherwin

I'd just like to clarify that this is a different Mike Jones.

Personally I had an excellent example of GK IPA in a pub in the New Forest the week that CBOB was happening, though I wouldn't normally have chosen it, and was pleasantly surprised. I had no knowledge of the CBOB result at that time.

Reply to
Mike Jones

In message , Paul Sherwin wrote

Why not? There are already keg beers at the GBBF.

Reply to
Alan

I know a man that does, and if you put your questions on paper addressed to the Champion Beer of Britain Co-ordinator (c/0 CAMRA HQ) he might answer.

It could well be a staff member from the recent festival. (The roof leaks a bit and so, it seems, does the floor :-)

Reply to
Steven Pampling

Steve, I think it would be helpful to all Camra members if a detailed explanation of how the CBOB is organized was posted somewhere. Ideally this should be on the Camra website or in What's Brewing, but any easily accessible location would do.

It's clearly impossible to ask the organizer specific questions without this information.

It would be very unfair to try to scapegoat individuals over this (unless there has been actual corruption, of course). This has been a systems failure and we need to make sure it never happens again, if necessary by ending the CBOB competition.

Best regards, Paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

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Reply to
Paul Sherwin

Apologies Chris, I didn't mean to cast doubt on your masculinity, I'm confusing you with another Chris (who is female - though you can never be certain on the internet :-))

Paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

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Reply to
Paul Sherwin

Paul Sherwin16/8/04 8:10 PM

Well this particular Chris has wobbly, dangly bits for starters (I just checked) and I didn't say it was *fixed* either, but inferred that some larger brewers might be up for an award - for even a half decent beer - in order to retain their interest in the whole idea.

Me too on that score... But perhaps it is good for Greene King and others of its size to win awards; to hopefully take genuine awards and product quality more seriously in the decisions on profitability; and maybe start improving their products which have/might have deteriorated.

However using underhand product distribution tactics to win awards for marketing purposes when/if the overall production of the brew is inferior, is not acceptable to anyone surely?

It's cynical and an insult to consumers and competitors.

Pragmatism is the name of the game in business. CAMRA surely has to work along with the big players to some degree. However, if a lot of knowledgeable people (I don't count myself in that group incidentally). smell a rat - then a rat it usually is. Personally, I've never seen so much negative chat about an award before.

And if its a duck and quacks like a duck with a name like Chris, it might even be a drake :>)

CR

Reply to
Chris Rockcliffe

Perhaps HQ staff will be good enough to pass this request on (in paper form).

Reply to
Steven Pampling

C d C or CR?

Both female to my knowledge.

"Rocky" clearly isn't. :-)

Reply to
Steven Pampling

perhaps you need a better bra ;o))

Reply to
Chris de Cordova

Chris de Cordova16/8/04 10:52 PM

If I don't cut down on calories, I might well do!! :>/

CR

Reply to
Chris Rockcliffe

In article , Chris Rockcliffe writes [snipped]

Having been a CBoB judge (and also a perry judge when the Cider and Perry Championships were held at GBBF) I take your remarks to stem from ignorance of the judging process. The beer is stillaged in another room to which the judges have no access, and the various entries in each category are presented in a completely anonymous manner. I consider myself to be no end of a clever chap, but even I can't hold a glass of beer up to the light and say, 'Oh, that's obviously Greene King IPA from the colour'. (I can, however, tell the difference between a glass of Budweiser Budvar and a glass of Guinness just by looking at them!)

Neither did a little man wander around the room saying out of the corner of his mouth, 'Psst, number 3 is Greene King IPA - mark it up or we won't get any advertising from them for What's Brewing'. It is quite on the cards that it was the best-tasting bitter, but that was just the cask that was sent to Olympia.

When I was in New Zealand 18 months ago I was told a story by a winemaker in Hawkes Bay about a wine-judging held there as part of a major competition. All the judges were greatly impressed by one particular wine and voted it the winner. When they went out to dinner that night they found the same wine on sale at the restaurant and ordered some.

Quel disappointment!

Paul Sherw>I'm not a great fan of Beer of the Festival awards either, but at least they've

I'm not a fan of them either, because there is no anonymity in this voting and sentiment rules the head and the palate. How many times has a brand-new micro won Beer of the Festival with its first brew?

Reply to
Roy Bailey

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