Hogaarden short measures at JD Wetherspoons

Hi there, I dont drink it myself preferring real ale myself but friends of mine keep getting short measured at our local JD Wetherspoons when served Hogaarden. The glass is a 'pint to line' hogaarden glass and they serve it with head as big as 4 cm's at times. They steadfastly refuse to top it up saying it's a continental beer and it's supposed to beer served that way. One women even slammed a promotional board in front of my friend to 'back up' her claim! I've emailed JD Weatherspoons because I'm sure they are wrong. Please tell me the law isn't different for continental beers? Hope this is not OT

Regards Wayne.

Reply to
Wayne
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If the glass has a line that is where the liquid should be served to. Whether it is a 'continental' beer or not is irrelevant. Our laws prevail here. It sounds like a case for your local Trading Standards Office.

John B

Reply to
JohnB

This is pretty standard Wetherspoons behaviour. JDW managers have very tight ullage targets and the less scrupulous managers encourage their staff to serve short measure. Ususally staff will top up if you ask them, since most people don't ask, but occasionally you'll find a really awful Spoons where they argue. This is both illegal and against the trade code of conduct, but if you argue there's a good chance you'll just be barred. Go elsewhere.

Best regards, paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

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Reply to
Paul Sherwin

In message , Paul Sherwin wrote

When your local council takes up licencing duties write to them and complain.

Reply to
Alan

Thanks for all the responses, If JDW don't change I will contact the T.S office and see if they will do something about it!

Reply to
Wayne

I suppose the style of beer might have a bearing on whether the amount of froth in place of liquid is unreasonable. You'd expect Guinness to have a bigger head than cider, for example.

If they have refused a request for a top up I suggest you contact Trading Standards.

Robin

Reply to
Robin Cox

In message , Robin Cox wrote

Not in a brim measure glass!

Is the amount of Guinness in a bottle less than the amount stated on the label? If, say, 500ml is the sated amount on a bottle label and the amount of liquid is 500ml why isn't a pint of the same beer a liquid pint in a glass

Reply to
Alan

Because a set of short measuring sods selling the aforesaid persuaded a judge to rule that "the head forms part of the pint" (with a stipulation that the head should form no more than a certain percentage and that the customer was entitled to ask for a top up which should be given with good grace.

The anti-full pint brigade argue that oversize line marked glasses would increase cost due to:

  1. Needing to replace the glass stock.
  2. The excess sometimes served over the line. (and some other similar bull)

In answer to 1. The glass stock at most pubs is virtually totally replaced over a quite short period due to breakage, degradation of the glass look and feel (scratches etc) and promotional glasses offered by brewers with fancy logos. Given a changeover period of 5 years any pub (or club) could comply.

In answer to 2. The waste from spills of brim measures during serving and transport to the customers drinking location is eliminated and the pub/club will have all the beer in the glass consumed by the customer (or dumped in the ashtray depending on their preference :-) and thus has reduced cleaning bills for carpets and floors in general as well as reducing drip tray waste which is not sold to the customer (in most pubs...) and thus providing income. If the pub feels that they haven't managed to get the right amount of money for the beer they served then they charge more. This provides the customer with the opportunity to judge whether he/she is getting value for money. Those who judge that they are not vote with their feet and drink elsewhere.

The latter point is one that I believe the Pickthalls[1] would totally agree with in that the pub/club/bar set a price for their wares and those who don't like the price are free to not buy anything.

The present situation is not a level playing field in that some places give the volume stated in return for the price stated, others give less than the volume stated and thus do both the customer and the industry a disservice.

[1] Simply used as an example of members of the industry who post here and believe they offer value for money.
Reply to
Steven Pampling

With reference to this, I hope everyone's pestering their MP to support Early Day measure 331, about a full pint by law.

There was a send-off postcard in the last issue of WB, but you could always just email or write in.

Reply to
loobyloo

Especially true for those readers here that are UK resident but not members of CAMRA. (I think there are a few ;-)

Reply to
Steven Pampling

It's quite lawful for any beer to have a reasonable head where the head is an unavoidable part of the beer.

Pouring techniques obviously complicate this and it's quite possible, especially on the very odd occasion when I've tried to pull a pint, for the head to comprise 30% plus of the beer ;-)

It isn't reasonable that poor pouring technique or even worse an additional conscious attempt to stylish a beer should result in an excessively short measure.

It probably is unlawful for them to claim to sell something that they aren't actually selling. A complaint to Trading Standards should achieve something if only an embarrassed return to good practice on part of the poorly managed pub concerned.

Gareth.

Reply to
Gareth

And actually Wetherspoons' staff are some of the worst pourers of beer I've ever come across. Even after the top-up your beer's often not got any more liquid in it.

Reply to
loobyloo

In message , Gareth wrote

Surveys by a leading consumer organisation have indicated that the majority of pints have unacceptable short measures. The surveys probably only relate to Real Ale sales and not the 'smooth type of dispense for keg beer where a full measure in a brim measure glass is impossible.

Now that local councils are taking over responsibility for licencing it is now easier for pub customers to ensure that the criminals in the pub trade who are stealing from them are put out of business.

Join the campaign[1] against dishonest publicans and ensure that any pub landlord who serves short measure doesn't get his licence renewed.

[1] No need to join any organisation and no need to spend more than them cost of stamp. At long last, the people responsible for a pub continuing to trade is accountable to YOUR local elected representative.
Reply to
Alan

This mostly down to inadequate cellarmanship resulting in too much condition combined with a beer fluffing device commonly referred to as a "sparkler".[1] The fact that most of the staff are inept doesn't help either.

[1] The "sparkler" actually being a bit of plastic with multiple pinholes that batter the living daylights out of decent beer[2] and produce large amounts of crazy foam to sit on top of your beer. The rip off merchants claim this is part of your pint of liquid. [2] Yes, certain beers taste better when served through a sparkler, but I did say "batter the living daylights out of decent beer". In the same vein I've no doubt 'Bud' is much improved by being served at 1 Celcius thereby hiding the taste.
Reply to
Steven Pampling

Friend of mine visiting Oz got the usual barely above freezing lager-wannabe beer. Decided to let one warm up so he could taste it, then wished he hadn't. KeithS

Reply to
KeithS

They say that northern beers should be served through a sparkler, but not southern beers. I have two experiences which are relevant:

  1. Smiles in a pub in Gloucs. The first pint was served through a sparkler and seemed rather characterless. So I asked for it to be removed for the second pint. The difference in taste was astonishing (and for the better).
  2. A Robinsons pub in Stockport (Red Bull, Middle Hillgate) which used to serve best bitter through a tight sparkler (probably still does, though I haven't been there recently). It took them them several minutes - plus lots of foam going into the drip tray - to get anything near a full pint. Long queues to be served. Regardless of whether the sparkler is appropriate, it certainly does nothing for the time to be served - or the wastage. Plus you regularly had to ask for a top-up, as after the beer had settled, there was usually an inch of head.

Brian

Reply to
BrianW

And if you believe that, you'll believe anything.

brian

Reply to
BrianW

appropriate, it

Here's one of my experiences: a pint of Roosters Yankee in the White Horse at Parsons Green, in my opinion a vastly overrated pub and not one I'm likely to favour with my custom again. The beer in question had no body and no flavour; it was served, Southern-style, without a sparkler. I left three quarters of it and went elsewhere, it was so bad.

When I drink Roosters/Outlaw beers in Yorkshire, they are usually served through a sparkler (I can think of only one pub which doesn't use them). In my bit of Yorkshire, they are more likely to be served through an autovac, and a pint of Yankee served by this method is a very, very different beast to the one I was served in London. Many Northern beers seem to be designed to be served through sparklers (though I am not suggesting that this is necessarily the case with Sean Franklin's beers), and at least one of my acquaintances carries one with him wherever he goes. Had I done the same, I might have less cause to complain about the White Horse (but not much less).

Note that you can't use oversized glasses with an autovac dispense system. For this reason alone, I am seriously opposed to any motion to ban brim-measure glasses.

Cheers

Mike

Reply to
mike.roebuck

Doesn't the CAMRA guide describe beer which, it thinks, should and shouldn't be served through a sparkler tap?

Gareth.

Reply to
Gareth

Yes, but

[ASBESTOS_UNDERPANTS]

This is basically a sop to Yorkies who insist on drinking everything through a sparkler. This daft system of dispense was only introduced in the 60s to allow non-keg beers to 'compete' with the then fashionable keg beers with their lovely foaming heads. Now people think Northern beer has *always* been like that and get very upset if you argue to the contrary.

When I started visiting pubs in Stoke in 1971 aged 16, there were *no* sparklers used.

[/ASBESTOS_UNDERPANTS]

Best regards, paul

-- Paul Sherwin Consulting

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Reply to
Paul Sherwin

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