ISINGLASS

The isinglass won't "kill" the yeast, it just takes it down to the bottom of the container (bottle/barrel/fermenter, whatever) and keeps it down there. I've never heard of anyone using isinglass directly in the bottle, probably because of the difficulty of putting an equal and effective amount into each bottle. Usually they fine in a secondary container after the main fermentation has taken place so that most of the spent yeast is taken to the bottom of the secondary, then the clear beer is transferred to bottles (or barrel if barrelling). But there will *always* be a tiny amount of yeast transferred from the secondary into the bottles or barrel, even after fining. Filtering would work, but I've never heard of a successful method of filtering beer for amateur brewers, and if all the yeast is taken out, you won't be able to get any fermentation in the bottles to give you your conditioning (gas).

All I can suggest is that you try obtaining a yeast that rapidly drops out of the fermentation and stays down hard on the bottom of the bottle.

You could try asking for suitable yeasts on

or

Sulphur dioxide kills the yeast doesn't it?

Damages it at least, but Marco wants to get his secondary fermentation going in the bottle before he kills the yeast. Also you don't really want dead and decaying yeast spoiling in the bottle.

Ah sorry, I didn't fully read/decipher the original question.

As Keith suggests, I too have never heard of a commercial brewer using isinglass in bottle, though I would have thought the problem was less due to getting the right amount per bottle (I think you could do this by having it bottled from a tank with a mixer?) but the problem is AFAIK more to do with the way that isinglass would leave an unpleasant sediment sludge of yeast & isinglass, imperfectly settled in the bottom of the bottle (I think it would then mix back into the beer when you tried to pour it).

Commercial brewers who want to bottle beer without yeast tend to filter it out & 'force carbonate' the beer using counter pressure filling (which keeps the fizz in the beer as it's bottled).

My question to Andrea is - in commercial bottle-conditioned beers, if you let the yeast settle in the bottle & then pour it careful - does it still cause you trouble? If no, then, if you are careful with your brewing/bottling you should be OK (e.g. using cold sedimentation to get rid of excess yeast before bottling)

Good luck, MikeMcG

Mmm... :-) My problems are the sitting on WC.. :-) About WHAT is the cause and HOW resolve, I'm open to all ideas. I THINK: harmful yeast is suspended, not settled in the bottom.

I buy the beer named "Franziskaner" (you know?) is a Waizen with a lot of sediment. I drink that beer, 2 bottles also, and I still OK: no abdominal problems!!! So do a lot of commercial beer not filtred. But if I drink a Chimay (you know? It's a trappist beer), I have much problems! I think it's not a case chance: from Chimay many people succeed to recover the yeast , but never from many other commercial beer.

So I think I can't drink beer with yeast is still alive!

Again: not all bottles are harmful!! Are harmful in particolar mode the first bottles: beer bottles in begin (I bottle using the tap). Then I have opened one of fist group and I I have drunk 1 glass of this beer... and I've been badly. Then I used gelly (generic gelly to make chake) in that bottle and then I drunk again...... and this time, with same beer in same bottle, I've NOT been badly!!!!!

Marco

You think is better for me try this winter with lowland fermentation yeast? This winter I will try to make a pils.

Lowland fermentation yeast stays down better o worse?

Marco

I wonder if it's a feature of wheat beer? I too can drink wheat beers, which are full of sediment, with no problems, and I'm wondering if what you're experiencing is more a problem with the barley malt in "normal" beers?

Sorry Marco, I don't understand "lowland" fermentation/yeast. Is this bottom-fermenting yeast?

I know that some amateur (and possibly professional) brewers do the main fermentation with one type of yeast. Here in the UK it is

*usually* a top-fermenting yeast. They then use finings to clear out that yeast, rack off into another container where they then add a bottom-fermenting yeast (I think lager yeasts are bottom fermenting) so that it stays settled on the bottom. So your idea of trying a pils brew could well work OK. But there are also top-fermenting yeasts which rapidly drop out of the brew after fermentation is completed and stay hard at the bottom of the bottle.

Continuing with your reply to Mike's reply......

Yes, I also brew wheat beers. I use a normal top-fermenting yeast in the main (primary) fermenter. After fermentation is finished. I add finings, leave for two days, then rack into a secondary fermenter. Meanwhile I have cultured on the yeast from Hoegaarden (a Belgian wheat beer) until I have sufficient yeast fermenting, which I add to the secondary fermenter along with the fined beer. I then bottle this beer, along with its Hoegaarden yeast.

Yes, I've read somewhere that Chinay, in common with some other Belgian ales uses a top fermenting yeast.

I'm probably completely wrong here, but I have to ask just in case, so please forgive me if I'm insulting your intelligence. When you pour the beer from the bottle, do you pour it carefully, slowly and without disturbing the yeast at the bottom of the bottle, and leave behind the last 10 - 20mm containing the yeast? You're not trying to get all the beer into your glass are you?