Beer/booze in grocery stores?

I'm not sure the above statement is true ... are grocery stores any worse for "craft" beers than these "distribution centers" that certain states have (the ones that seem to be closed on sundays?).

Also, it is a false dicotomy: we can buy beer in grocery stores (Safeway, Albertson's, Trader Joe's, Grocery Outlet), but we can also go to specialized alcohol stores and buy beer there (Berverages and More, or Beltramo's or the many many smaller liquor stores), which are all mostly usually open on Sundays and a lot of them are even open on most major holidays.

It is true that the major grocery stores tend to limit the number of craft beers available. I'm never really sure how each grocery store comes up with the list of what they'll sell. For instance there's a good chance that the local major Safeway store will sell Anchor Steam, Sierra Nevada and Stone Brewery products. But why those three, and not a beer from a smaller brewery that is more closer, I don't know.

My experience GENERALLY corresponds to Sandy's: the "distributors" (that's what we call beer stores in PA...I always have, don't know why. "Beer store" would be easier and make more sense, but most folks I know call it a "hot water heater," and what sense does that make?) almost always have a better selection than the grocery stores in other states. But...

This is it: we just have the specialty stores. I miss serious specialty stores, because the case law in PA makes it tough to run a bottleshop (which is what we call the few stores that sell sixers and singles (because they have a bar license and can do so...but only two sixpacks at a time. It's screwy)).

The chains have a list of how much various beers sell. If they fall below a certain line in the sales list, they get cut. It's just that simple.

That in general Florida sucks rocks when it comes to beer.

Respect That.

I think that's true for just about everything you can find in a generic grocery store. Meat. Cheese. Bread. Fresh vegetables. Even something as seemingly simple as butter. Wine. Booze. It should come as no surprise to you that beer is handled the same way. In my experience I get the best meat from a butcher shop, the best cheese from a cheese shop slash deli, and the best beer from, er, my local wine shop. But you get the picture. And don't even get me started on Super WalMart.

It's true. I remember getting Chimay Blue at a grocery store in Lafayette, Louisiana, but even if you search the liquor stores, in Florida, it tends to be desolate. The grocery stores are generally light and mass-market, with things like Heineken topping the bill--though I was in a grocery store with an adjunct liquor store in the western outskirts of West Palm Beach that had a good range of Belgians--but this is rare. Usually it's only cheap lager after cheap lager. There are quite a few British beers generally available because of the high number of visitors and expats, but Guinness/Bass/Worthingtons are really pretty plain.

Some of the ubiquitous ABC stores carry the 3 Chimay beers as well as Youngs, including the excellent Old Tom barleywine. Another surprising option is the World Market chain, where I've seen the Dogfish Head 90-minute in Orlando (though they don't refrigerate--so buying delicate beers there may be a bit iffy--it might be worth checking the thickness of the dust on the bottles).

There are plenty English pubs with the like of Old Speckled Hen, but trying to find a beerpub with anything but amber swill is pretty hard in Florida!

Disagree, at least on such a broad, blanket scale. For one, it all depends on the grocery store. Your run-of-the-mill groceries carry run-of-the-mill products, and that's not just in terms of booze. I walk into most Ralph's in SoCal, and I'm lucky I can find shallots half the time, let alone saffron or proper hoisin sauce; I go to a Bristol Farms or Gelson's (a couple local gourmet/upscale/overpriced chains local to LA), and I practically get mauled by that sort of stuff. I walk into Ralph's, and Sierra Nevada's about as exotic as it gets. I walk into my local Bristol Farms, and I find several California and West Coast craft beers, plus a lot of very good imports.

And in terms of groceries, it's not just the beer that's generally lacking in diversity. Try to find a great variety of wine at your local typical local Safeway. Try to find a bottle of Lagavulin or Blanton's or 100 pure agave tequila. Some scattered stores might have it, but the vast majority won't, just like the vast majority aren't selling USDA Prime beef or Swiss chard.

I think most people who are interested in "gourmet," whether it's food or drink, know to go to places that specialize in that, just as much as they know not to go to Wal-Mart in search of Christian Dior and Armani.

-Steve

Somewhat OT, I guess, but I'm curious: could I go into such a shop, buy two six-packs, run them out to my car, come back in, buy two more six-packs, run them out to my car, later/rinse/repeat ad nauseum? Or is it two six-packs for the day, hour, until the next shift, until someone doesn't recognize me?

I swear, I know every state has at least one incredibly daft thing about its liquor laws, but PA really plays in its own league.

What I've always found curious is that nearly every chain I've seen will have the occasional oddball store that will carry a hell of a lot more beer, and a winder range, than 90 percent of the rest of that chain's stores. It usually seems to be somewhat neighborhood-based - usually in more affluent zip codes - but it's not consistent in that regard. I've seen (and lived by) many stores where one store is well-stocked, and another store from that same chain, in the same basic neighborhood but a couple miles down the road will have just the normal shit.

-Steve

It's even sillier: according to the local enforcement agent's interpretation (which is always what REALLY matters, even at the federal level) when I was tending bar back in early 1980s, all you would have had to do was buy the two sixers, put your hand holding the beer outside the door ("How about the window?" I asked him; "Sure, the window works," he said, in all seriousness), and then walk back to the counter and buy two more. Ridiculous. Until you realize that in 1982, you were paying $5 a six-pack for Bud to get the privilege of buying a six-pack, when a case of Bud at the distributor was going for $13. Similar margins hold today, which is why the case law is so hard to beat: the tavern owner's lobby is VERY strong in PA.

Maybe...but all we really have is the case law and the corresponding six-pack law. Er, and the specialized beer store law. BUT we also have a law that bars MUST clean tap lines at least once a week, and enter that cleaning in a log and sign off on it. That and our historically strong three-tier system have made for a very nice draft beer culture here. Not to mention that the case law also means a lot less skunky beer.

That's true (sometimes). Back in the pre-micro days, I often bought my beer, several cases at a time, across the Delaware from NJ. When a lot of people heard that, they'd exclaim "But beers so much more expensive in Pennsy!" (I hate that term "Pennsy", but I'm only quoting here.) Obviously, *they* didn't know about beer distributors vs. bars. I'd explain I was mostly buying beer I couldn't get at home (Horlacher Perfection, Yuengling Porter, that old version of Stegmaier Porter with licorice, Straubs, Stoney's, Little Kings, Sierra (from Iron City), etc.) BUT I also bought nice, unskunked Ballantine XXX Ale and Chesterfield Ale in heavy, deposit bottles in a closed case.

On the other hand, I was a bit shocked when I went to the (then-new) Shangy's and saw the large windows and bright lights and finding beer like Worthington White Shield and all those St. Peter's beers (in green glass, no less) sitting under the window with only clear shrink wrap holding the case together, instead of a nice, closed cardboard case.

My ideal "beer store" would be cool and dark, and you'd be given night vision googles when you entered and a tarp to cover the beer on the way out to your vehicle...

Worse than "Frisco."

You ARE going back a ways.

There was a store in Massachusetts I used to go to when I was up there that had empty display bottles. You went around with a pad of paper and wrote down the beer's number and how many bottles you wanted, and the clerk would go back and get them for you out of an unlit cooler. I liked that. Weird, but I liked it.

Sounds like the owner might have been from Ontario (isn't that how The Beer Stores are/were set-up?).

Me, I'd like to get the job of "making" the display bottles. "Here, Kidden, we just got another shipment of beers from B. United. Do your thing..."

Yes, most of them are still that way, except that you just give your order verbally.

Unless you're a fan of the late, great Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Pennsy") or the St. Louis-San Francisco Railroad ("The Frisco")..........

Alexander D. Mitchell IV, with 20 years more railroad experience than beer experience, for whom railroad magazines were part of his "learning to read" library............

"Lew Bryson" wrote in news:s2v1f.138$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:

Both Liquid Solutions and Belmont Station do it that way too (in Portland, OR). Seemed a bit of a pain (and at least at Belmont Station, they made you write down the price for each beer too!), but it was admittedly comforting to know everything was stored cool in the back (and hopefully dark).

Cheers, Ernest

The mass-sales groceries in VA (Safeway and Giant) tend to carry usual BMC crap with at least some token offerings from Dominion, plus SNPA and overpriced Celebration in season. That's somewhat mitigated by the fact that there are other groceries around like Harris Teeter (with a reasonably good selection) and Whole Foods (which, thanks to Jim Dorsch, has a selection that can make grown men weep with joy).

When I recently moved to MN, I was a little annoyed by the fact that I'd have to actually go to a liquor store in order to get beer, but I've actually decided that's a damn good thing after all. Every liquor store I've been in (and good lord, there are a SHITLOAD of liquor stores here) has at least one good thing, so I never have to drive more than a mile or two to get something good like Capital or Sprecher (Black Bavarian Lager, mmmmm). I think it does assist craft brewers in the fact that some craft brews are going to be displayed in about every store.

Then again, screw everybody else. I'm less than 15 minutes from Blue Max Liquors in Burnsville, which has about 1,000 beers in stock per their claims (I haven't counted, but I'm enjoying the exploratory process).

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote: : : My ideal "beer store" would be cool and dark, and you'd be given night : vision googles when you entered and a tarp to cover the beer on the way : out to your vehicle... :

State Line Liquors, Elkton, MD.

Joel,

This is right where it is happening your post really hits the true story. If I want to buy running shoes I go the specialty running store ( yes I have experience at this). If I need to update my religious book section I personally go the the Catholic book store. Yes, they do sell books that give an excellent message for all Christians ( yes Catholic's are Christians) but they really narrow the puppy down so you avoid the junk.

Now if you want good beer, go to a store that sells good beer and mostly that is the only business they do. Sure they still have to sell Bud but at least you have a chance.

Joel, how have you been I have not hit the newsgroup in a longtime maybe a year or two.?

Maybe you're just lucky in SoCal. The Snob groceries in the Bay Area, while having a nominally better selection than the national chains, don't treat their beer any better. The staffs don't know jack shit about beer and don't care to know. Expiration dates, schmexpiration dates-- just wipe off the dust if you want to read the label. The beer bakes under fluorescent lights all day and all night, just like at Safeway (if you're lucky; the Palo Alto Whole Foods Market displays their beer under a sky light, where it catches the full glory of the sun).

I'm not at all happy with the retail beer scene here (relative to, say, Colorado or Oregon). The best we have is the god-awful Beverages and More!, featuring pig-ignorant staffs, inconsistent selection, and often horrendous storage and display conditions. A handful of wine shops carry some GoodBeer and actually manage to take care of it fairly well, but beer is not and never will be their focus, and selection will never be great.

Such specialty stores seem to be lacking here, at least for beer. Why? Maybe it's economic; maybe they wouldn't survive in competition with grocery and warehouse stores. But I think it has more to do with the attitude of Bay Aryans: "Whatever we have here is self-evidently the best, this being the best of all possible worlds. If it doesn't exist here, there is obviously no need for it."

*I generally agree with your premise. Just as there are supermarkets with excellent everything (87 cheeses, their own smokery, etc.), there's also the Kwik-E-Mart and Apu.

But part of my premise is that the presence of booze in the supermarkets and the "commonality" ends up limiting the demand for and presence of better beer/wine stores. In my no-grocery-booze area, not counting the stores that have bullet-proof glass and sell rotgut and 40's through bulletproof turnstiles, it's actually rather hard to find a liquor/beer store that doesn't have at least a *token* microbrew or several (Dogfish, Abita, Victory, Otter Creek, Anchor, a local, etc.--and we could debate whether Yuengling is a craft brew or not). The competition between stores almost forces them to be distinctive one way or another--bait with your beer suitcase, a dynamite spirits selection, the finest wines, one of everything, convenience factors, etc. We have booze supermarkets trying to offer 50,000 or more products and a supposedly competent staff; we have certain stores trying to offer the widest beer selection possible (two or three break the

1,000 mark); and we have stores that allegedly only offer the finest of everything.

I just don't find those in Arizona or Florida. Sure, if I'm lucky enough to find the World Market or the Whole Foods Market, then I'm in modestly fine shape.

Someone else speculated off-newsgroup that all the places mentioned were in the South, and that perhaps hot weather/climate kept down the demand for finer beers and kept up the demand for lighter beers. Okay, maybe (I see how thin Southern Brew News is--when I can find it)--but by that account Pizza Port in San Diego shouldn't exist...........