Black and Tan Controversy

Well, you either have a bad memory or a younger than me (altho', it could be a regional thing, as well). Certainly, in the US, "half and half" was the term used with much greater frequency in the past (indeed, a number of US brewers marketed various types/combinations of "Half and Half" in the post-Prohibition era-

For me, the first common usage of "Black and Tan" was Yuengling's and IIRC (or maybe I just assumed it to be so?), it was to distinguish it from the common PA made-at-the-draft-tap "half and half" of Chesterfield Ale (rather than beer) and Y's Porter.

At the same time, Guinness and Bass Ale was being called "Black and Tan" while a "Half and Half" meant the use of Harp beer- or the opposite of Yuengling's usage. I suspect that the marketers of Guinness hoped that the two terms would eventually mean ONLY their "combinations" (especially since Bass at the time was imported into the US by Guinness)- I don't know, with Bass taken away from them, seems they're pushing Smithwick's now as a Guinness "mixer"- do they call that "Black and Tan"?

Again, I recall controversy about the term "Black and Tan" cropping up occassionally (especially since it often included Irish Guinness)- I think Michael Jackson reacts to it in one of his books or a column. Something tells me it comes up every once in a while when someone who knows (or just read up on) Irish history and stumbles into a bar or, in this case, the ice cream freezer.

Tom or Mary wrote: : I read that Ben and Jerry's is getting heat from the Irish for naming a ice : cream flavor Black and Tan because the term has something to do with the : British troops which occupied their country. Black and Tan has been a style : of beer for as long as I can remember, and no one has ever said boo. : : 'Black and Tan' flavor refers to drink, company says, not British militia : deployed during war of independence. cnn.com :

Then you haven't been paying attention. Commentary/controversy about the term pops up periodically and has been around for years. And for the exact reasons you stated: The Black and Tans were a countery-revolutionary paramilitary force created by the British during the Irish Revolution. They were implicated in brutal repression of Irish nationalists (although it's debatable whether it was them or other irregular forces that were largely responsible), and for many Irish they are synonymous with British rule and repression. Hence the controversy with the name.

Well, far be it from CNN ever to get a story right, and of course Ben and Jerry's is going to spin it that way. But the term, while most commonly used in the States as reference to the drink, is hardly the unloaded, innocuous term the above quote tries to make it.

If you're curious about the history of the Black and Tans and why they're controversial, there's a good overview at Wikipedia:

-Steve

I'd be curious to know when etymologists first find reference to the phrase "Black & Tan" and what it refers to in that reference. I just saw someone claim that the first reference is to a drink, but....you know about believing stuff you read on the 'Net.

Top posting, Lew? Why?

(Sorry, Scheidt has dropped off the face of the earth. Someone has to take up the slack.)

It is an interesting question, but in the end I would guess the answer would be strictly academic. Phrases, symbols, etc. can get pretty permanently associated with a later meaning if enough people have a negative enough impression of it. Like the swastika. It was a positive symbol for thousands of years, but at least in the western world, it's going to probably take thousands of years before it would ever stop being perceived as emblematic of something awful. At least for the Irish, particularly republicans, I'm guessing black & tan has a similar rep, even if the drink did come first.

-Steve

Here in Ireland, while the irregular British forces of the war of independence would be the primary referent, it's not the only one. (FWIW, neither the US B&T nor the English orfernorf mix is known here.)

My own feeling for the origin is that it is a way of describing a certain appearance of dog -- mostly black with tan highlights. I believe there is a hunt somewhere in Ireland (i.e. horse and hounds pack) known as the Black and Tans because instead of hunting pink (i.e. red jackets) they wear black coats with yellow-brown cuffs and collars. They could only get away with that because of greater antiquity than the war of independence, of course.

For Lew's original question (strict etymological origin) what we need, of course, is the OED.

Brendan

It was marketing spin, pure and simple. Create a "controversy" while getting a ton of FREE publicity and having endless comments about it pop up on the net.

Bob Skilnik