Bleach

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So I've been brewing since January.  12 batches now and have been using
sanitizers for my equipment, but using bleach to sanitize bottles.  I
have a system with a bottle rinser for getting the bleach out of the
bottles, but many at the local brewshop cringe when they hear I'm using
bleach.  I soak my bottles in a utility sink and bleach seems to be the
most affordable solution to use.  What other methods are there for
sanitizing bottles in an economical way?

Re: Bleach


wrote:

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Bleach works well.  A tiny amount of residual bleach can affect the
taste of a whole batch of beer.  Keep the concentration as low as
possible and rinse well.  Pay particular attention to plastic and
rubber parts when rinsing and avoid long soaks to those parts.

Or just buy one of the recommended sanitizers.

B-bright or Oxyclean (before they added perfume and surfactants) is
sodium percarbonate.  I bought my last batch on line, goggle around.
I used http://www.todieforsoap.com/chemicals.htm they had the best
price a year ago.


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default a écrit :
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I use boiling water for filters, primary, lines, syphons, caps, keggs
and faucets (all no-glass equipment), and 47% alcohol (94% cut 50/50
with pure water) for airlocks, carboys and bottles. Needs hardly 250ml
of 47% alcool for each 50L batch (conditioned in 2 19L keggs and 24
bottles) and gives no chance for non-beer chemicals to be added.
Cheepest clean way to sanitize for me.

Of course, a clean workspace is a good start too.

Santé!

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default wrote:

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I use Oxiclean for cleaning everything in my brewry (the blue crystal
don't matter a bit), but it's not a sanitizeer.  I use iodophor or
StarSan for that.

    ------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com

Re: Bleach


Denny Conn wrote:
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I've done to batches of beer since the first of the year, one was an
absolute dud.  One of the problems was probably that I used bleach to
sanitize and didn't rinse out the equipment thoroughly enough.  The
second batch, an Irish stout being served at pot luck supper tomorrow
came out much better.  One of the reasons was (I believe) that I used
idophor to sanitize.

I'm convinced that it is worth the extra expense.

  - Scott

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Well, sodium percarbonate disassociates into hydrogen peroxide which I
would consider a sanitizer.  Look at the MSDS for it if you doubt . .
.  "they" consider the toxicity of the hydrogen peroxide when coming
up with the toxic limit values.

Oxyclean is fine for a sanitizer, I just didn't like the perfume and
slimy feel -  made handling bottles harder.

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I also do the same.  Clean in Oxyclean and sanitize with Iodophor.

I use to use bleach but think about it..  you then go baack and rinse in
plain tap water.  Just felt like I was wasting my time.

Besides a 30 second rinse in iodophor is all it takes.  Let the bottles
drain 10-20 minutes upside down.

Frank
ATF Home Breq Club
New Bern NC



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Been brewing for over 5 years.  Have only used bleach.  Other than being
careful to use proper concentration and rinse well, it is as good as any.
Never had a problem and it's cheap, as you say.  Bleach  is fine, just rinse
well.


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Re: Bleach


 I still use bleach, but never stronger than 50 ppm (10 to 25 ppm is enough
as long as your bottles are clean). If you use hot water in your bottle
rinser, all traces of chlorine should be gone once the bottles dry.
Tom

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If you have (or know someone who has) a dishwasher, I'd use the dry cycle to
sterilize the bottles.  There's also sanitizing agents that work well.  In
my opinion, Star-San is fairly inexpensive - due to the small amount
necessary for treatment (1 ounce per 5 gallons of water).  A 32 oz supply is
approximately $12.00.

- stone-ok



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wrote:

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For cripes sake...

{Getting on Soapbox}

You aren't "sterilizing" ANYTHING in a dishwasher.  In fact, the
chance of sterilizing in your home oven is even really low.

The word you are searching for is SANITIZING.  What is sanitary is
usually NOT sterile, although sterile is sanitary.  The two words are
rarely interchangeable.  I wish folks would quit talking about
sterilizing their brewing equipment as THEY AREN'T DOING THAT!!!!!

{Getting of soapbox}

OK, I feel better now.

Personally, I'd never use a dishwasher to SANITIZE bottles.  It's
difficult for the water to get up inside the bottles, and it's not
really that hot, during the drying cycle, at the sanitization process.

I know people do it, and I know many get it to work, but they are
taking a chance every time.


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to
In
is


RELAX, everything's okay.  I apologize for my word usage.  Sanitize /
sterilize ..... Asshole / Holeass.

I guess I was mis-informed in Palmer's book.  I'm glad that I now feel more
smarter.

Thank you,




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In all this discussion, I'm wondering why no one has mentioned
ordinary household ammonia.  I just bought several used bottles that
needed cleaning.  I mixed ammonia at about 1/4 cup/gal. warm water,
let the solution sit in the bottles a few minutes which loosened much
of the slime, then used a bottle brush to get the rest.  I then
thoroughly rinsed with hot water using a jet bottle washer.  They
looked so sparkly clean, I went ahead and let them drain, then used
them to bottle a batch.  I see no reason why one couldn't use ammonia
in this way (minus the bottle brush) to sanitize already clean
bottles.  Ammonia is easier to rinse than bleach.  (Obviously never
mix the two as poisonous gas would form.)  Ammonia also works well for
removing labels.  Anyone with knowledge of ammonia's anti-bacterial
properties?  

BTW, I'll share my simple method for draining rinsed bottles:  I use
two ordinary square plastic crates with a plain crisscross mesh,
turned upside down over newspaper.  Each one has enough little square
openings to hold about a case.

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Other than the horrific smell, I think ammonia is great stuff for cleaning
in kitchens, bathrooms, brewhouses, whatever.  Based on my understanding of
chemistry principles, I'd guess that since ammonia is alkaline in nature, it
works by breaking down organic matter into alcohols and ammonium salts,
effectively melting away cell walls and causing the biomatter to become
soluble in water, thus killing the creatures and allowing us humans to wipe
it all up like it's no big deal (except for that lovely odor of ammonia).
If I'm not mistaken, chlorine bleach works in similar fashion by converting
anything and everything into chloride salts.  So to answer your question,
I'm pretty sure ammonia kills bacteria, as does bleach.  I'm uncertain what
strength it needs to be in water to be officially considered
"anti-bacterial", but given the proper strength, it should prove deadly to
the little bugs.  And just look at that shine!!  :)

--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --  
Genesis, 1973-ish



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David M. Taylor wrote:
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A great solution as long as you don't have respitory issues such as
asthma.  I can't get near ammonia because of it.

  - Scott

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Maybe this technique will work for you.
the day after the party, i put about 24  empty botles(maybe22) in the bottom
rack of my dishwasher. glasses, cups, ashtrays, and salad plates tend to be
happy on the top shelf.
Sanitize cycle works okay, and real dishwasher soap. (not really here to
debate the value of cheaper than cheap detergents.)
Always check to make sure no buddy shoved a cigarette butt into the bottle,
and the bottom is clean.
Looking at a light bulb is the fast check.
dry and clean til i want to load them.
Surprising how easy all this is.

just remember to tell a buddy who shoves cig butts in the bottle, you will
make sure he gets that bottle next time. The threat seems to induce
compliance.

day before bottling. the bottles go back into the dishwasher.
Regular econo cycle, then i unload them and store them in the oven.
A good hour before bedtime, turn the oven on to 300 degrees.
PLEASE set the timer. Actually it will inspire you to clean the oven, which
will probably make your partner, really acceptable to your idea.
Next morning the brew is ready to bottle and so are the bottles, and they
are handy and easy to get thru.

Not that I disagree, with better living through chemistry. I just happen to
be really lazy.

Eventually, your partner will be almost gleefull and happy when you decide
to make beer, and even helps ya out. Surprising how just cleaning the oven
will help out your love life.

Do I add bleach? NOPE, I don't need it.
try it you will like it.



Re: Bleach


Bleach is fine.
Swimming pool "liquid chlorine" is the cheapest source.
Use common sense though:
Splashed accidentally in the eyes & you have a potentially serious
situation.
Dilute to a safe working strength & be sure to thoroughly rinse afterwards
with filtered cold tapwater or hot tapwater.
Without doubt the best all round sanitiser & one I have used without failure
or accident (beyond a few unwanted bleach marks in my old clothes) for many
years.

Pete

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I would think twice about using any chlorine designed for use in
swimming pools to sanitize my equipment.  It contains stabilizers and
other additives to make it last longer against the harsh UV that
destroys chlorine in short order.

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you actually have scientific knowledge
my hat is off to you
dug88
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No, I used to own a swimming pool and learned tons about water
chemistry and using chlorinated systems to keep the pool sanitary.


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