good taste after fermentation, sour after bottling

Eamonn, it is unlikely that too much oxygen caused you the problem you describe. Many of us struggle to get ENOUGH oxygen into the wort before primary fermentation.

I bought a galvanized steel garbage can, 33 gallon with lid, from my local building supply to cool the SSteel 5Gal brewpot. I put one bag of ice in the bottom, and place the hot brewpot from the gas burner directly onto the ice. With the brewpot lid in place, I then add two or three bags of ice around the sides of the brewpot. It fills to about 2/3 the vertical side of the brewpot. I then spin (slowly) the brewpot in the ice, and as it melts, in an icewater-ice mixture that is a measured 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Within 20 minutes or close to that, the wort has cooled to 75 degrees F. You can actually see the "cold break" precipitation of solids in the wort.

I'm a beginner too, and have had errors of misunderstanding that changed the way my first few batches came out. On the very first extract Saint Paul Porter, I BOILED the grain mix instead of steeping at a lower temperature below boiling. The porter is now two months old, and is very bitter, but I love it. I made it myself!

Make a list of everything you know you did right, that couldn't have caused the taste you object to. Then look for things you are unsure of, and start reading, reading, reading.

I am becoming aware of the importance of chemical content of brewing water, The water on the Gulf of Mexico coast is very soft, very tough to get rinsed enough during a shower not to feel soapy. I take water from a name-brand multi-chamber filtering system for brewing, and have just realized that I am using the near-equivalent of distilled water for my first few brews. Having read that some beers derive their characteristic signature from the hard water of the region, I will next batch use high-school chemistry to add ammonium sulfate, calcium bicarbonate, and after I read some more, maybe something else that our groundwater is lacking. A good brew has gotta start with good water, and I have learned that I need to pay attention to that very important first ingredient.

I wish I had a silver bullet solution to pass along, but I don't know enough yet to offer more than the simple things that appear here.

Denny St Paul Porter - in cold aging but disappearing fast London Nut-brown Ale - in cold aging, young but very tempting (like my wife) Biere de Garde - in second fermenter to bottle in a week Dewberry Mead - in secondary fermenter to bottle in two weeks

Yours is a good description of the typical crappy "hombrew" taste that detered me from trying to brew my own beer in the past. Finally, after considerable success in home winemaking, I decided to try beer again and found I had no problem at all producing tasty beers of several styles without running into the sour taste. I feel your, and my previous, problem is bacterial contamination. You simply must understand how important it is that EVERYTHING be well sanitized. Clean with hot water and detergent all items, then rinse well and sanitize with your choice (1:100 dilution of chlorine bleach, iodophore, phosphoric acid/detergent, etc.). Get advice on locally available sanitizers and their use from your local homebrew store. Wash all your bottles inside with a brush, and sanitize them well. Don't start your siphon by mouth

- fill the tube with boiled water or sanitizer solution and let it run out before filling your bottles. I don't use spigots because they seem difficult to clean inside. You can store your siphon cane & hose in a loop, filled with sanitizer. You'll get a good batch on your next try if you approach the whole process thinking about avoiding contamination.

Cal (drinking a very tasty weizen I made)

Thanks for the tips. I will try the ice technique on my next batch this weekend - my understanding was that oxidation is caused when aerated at temps above 80F. I had my previous batch well above that temp for too long I think! the only other thing that may have contaminated my brew is the spigpot on my plastic fermenter. Its got a ring of scum on the inside of it that I cant get to with cleaning implements.

We have clean, softish water here in Western Australia, so its good for brewing.

Its a little disheartening when you have to pour out the whole batch, but I'm ready to have another crack at it.

Many people will tell you to give it a good time before dumping it. Many brews taste much better with some ageing.

If you haven't discovered "rec.crafts.brewing", that group is much more active.

thanks - i sampled another one today and its getting better. I think I've fallen into the trap of mistaking "green" beer for contaminated or oxidised beer! I have a funny feeling that it will be pretty good in a few more weeks time.

Problem is ive poured all but a few bottles out already. And I did another batch, this time using finishing cascade hops on top of the coopers pale ale extract kit.

Cheers - and ill give the other group a visit.

Hopefully it will be fine...

I'll throw out a couple points, tho' ... 1. Always give it time. Don't rush, there are often odd tastes early on. 2. Truly SOUR probably means bacteria, as the other poster mentioned. Refrigerate it and drink it as long as you can stand it (some people actually like sour beers?)! I've also saved a bad sour batch to use as boiling liquid for bratwursts... If it is sour from bacteria, it will not get better, only more sour over longer periods of time. 3. On a few occasions I've had hops give a rather sour note, but that improved with some age.

Derric