Legal question concerning homebrewing

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I just opened a small homebrewing shop inside our garden center store.
We were discussing some things that we are unsure about.
 If an 18 year old kid comes in and wants to buy a 6 gallon carboy to
make a terrarium out of. Can I sell it to him?
Or how about a 6 gallon "stew pot" that a 16 year old wants to buy? If
he went to k-Mart he could get it without a problem, but is it illegal
if I sell it to him?
Drinking age here in Ohio is 21. Are there even laws covering age and
homebrewing?
I asked a local police officer and he had no idea.

Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
IANAL but IMHO it is the same as selling hydropic equipement.. it can be
used for legal or illegal means and it is not your place to discrimate
on that.  A carboy is just a glass container, it can have many uses and
i'm sure the same can be said about a stew pot. Selling a brew kit may
be different though, it is a little more purpose driven. I'm curious
though, the drinking age is 21 but does that mean you can't brew beer
unless you are 21?  Where i live the liquor laws refer to minimum age of
a customer being served or sold alcohol, and allowed in an establishment
  that primarily serves alcohol (it is also illegal to buy alcohol for a
minor, but that is generaly the same as selling or serving a minor
anyhow).  A minor drinking in their own home is different, if the
alcohol was purchased by a guardian or parent it is fine.

So the question is
: Is providing a minor with grain, yeast and various containers etc that
can be used for brewing beer the same as selling them alcohol.

To be safe you could just ask the youth to come in with their parents to
make a purchase couldn't you?  Most likely any legal problems you would
have would be kids brewing behind their parents' backs (ie you sold to a
minor and they are hiding their brew in the basement and their parents
discover it).

Sorry that wasn't much help eh.

Plumbum Blimp wrote:
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Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing

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Agreed here.  Selling the carboy or a stew pot means nothing, as both
have legitimate non-brewing uses/purposes.  The brew kit is a gray
area, but I would probably err on the side of caution and not sell it
to a person under the legal drinking age.

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Drinking laws have nothing to do with where the drinking occurs or
whether or not it was bought/sold.  If the police come into your home
for a valid reason, and your underage son/daughter/friends are
chugging the good stuff that YOU provided them, then guess what?  You
are now open to a charge of contributing to the delinquincy of a minor
(OK, minor in that they are under the legal drinking age for that
state, even if they are over 18).  It doesn't matter that they didn't
buy it.  They broke the law, and you provided the means for them to do
it.


Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
NobodyMan wrote:

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That's right.
On another note, consider this,
It's not illegal to make methamphetamines, But it is illegal to possess it.
Intent to make isn't illegal, even if it is your expressed intent, I hope
that answers your question.  Kind of neat, huh, living in a free world
Plumbum blimp?

Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing

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I'm from Canada, and this province's liquor laws are a little different
I suppose.  Of course we are pretty slack on a few things here
(marijuana anyone?).

heres the bc laws (2a is the interesting one):

(1) A person must not

(a) sell, give or otherwise supply liquor to a minor,

(b) have liquor in his or her possession for the purpose of selling,
giving or otherwise supplying it to a minor, or

(c) in or at a place under his or her control, permit a minor to consume
liquor.

2) Subsection (1) does not apply if liquor is

(a) given to a minor by his or her parent, spouse or guardian in a
residence for consumption in the residence,

(b) administered to a minor by or under the authority of a medical
practitioner or dentist for medicinal purposes, or

(c) given or otherwise supplied to a minor in accordance with the
regulations.

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/L/96267_01.htm#section33
I suppose this is so the entire family can legally enjoy some beer while
watching the hockey game?  Same province that won't sell a lighter to
people under the smoking age at a 7-11 because it is smoking
paraphenelia, yet will sell a bbq lighter.

I'm curious though, do you think a grocery store could be sued for
selling bags of frozen corn to kids if the kids make moonshine from it
and go blind?  If so, don't sell anything beer related to kids. Or even
a carboy since they may use it to make moonshine and go blind then sue
you because it was obvious they weren't making a terrarium.

If you can't find the law, then just don't sell anything grey area to
youth.  Better safe than a few unhappy underage customers.  Can't you
look up your state laws online though, or contact some kind of state
liquor board?

Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
Plumbum Blimp wrote:
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You might get better answers from a lawyer than homebrewers...unless
there's a homebrewing lawyer around!

    ---------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_at_projectoneaudio_dot_com

Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
i'm no lawyer, so give this as much credence as you see fit.

seems to me that you should be ok to sell the carboy/pot to anyone.  after
all, these things have multiple uses, and in and of themselves do not
represent possession of alcohol, which i believe is the basis of the law.
calls to mind when i was younger and the local "tobacco shops" would sell,
to anyone, these ornate "vases" made of ceramic and copper/steel tubing.
darned if i could ever figure out how you actually got the flowers in those
things. ;->

bob p

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Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
wrote:

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<snip>

hehehehe, I thank you all for the replies. We have a similar
"semantics" problem with our "Hair Clips", you've seen them, an
alligator clip with a bead and 2 strips of leather ending with another
bead and a feather.
Back in high school we called them "Roach Clips" everyone had one
hanging from their rear-view mirror. Even the kids that didn't
"smoke".
We can't label them as "Roach Clips" or the police could raid us and
confiscate them as drug paraphernalia. As "Hair Clips" they're ok.

I was hoping someone knew the answer so I wouldn't have to hire a
lawyer to answer it for me. As long as the local cops don't know the
answer, I guess I'm in good shape,,,,,LOL




Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
Just take care. i read somewhere that a company selling hydroponic material
had it's material consfiscated and had a big fine because they advertised in
High Times and the add hinted that it could be used to grow pot. The same
way if you sell carboys and in your advertising it's said to be part of
brewing equipement, you can have some problems.

I would say just to use some common sense but the laws concernig alcohol in
USA are so stupid that common sence has notting to do with it so better be
safe than be sorry..
--
Altair (:-o)>=
"The History of every major Galactic Civilisation tends to pass through
three distinct and recognisable phases... characterised by the questions How
can we eat? Why do we eat? and Where shall we have lunch?"
Douglas Adams.
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after
sell,
those



Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:18:50 -0400, "Altair"

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I probably could have looked it up, and I still might. But isn't this
much more fun that listening to a bunch of stiff necked lawyers?
Thanks for your time guys.
I think I like this newsgroup.

Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing


[...]

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Don't bet on it.

Things may go fine for years -- until someone gets a wild hair and talks
to the local prosecutor.  They may not have a case in the world, but
you'll still have to defend yourself.

On the other hand, if you have some actual legal research done and
documented, you can legitimately claim that you did your homework and
sold the malt and hops in good faith.

Better yet, go talk to a few of the local prosecutors.  That, at least,
should be free.


On the one hand, there are legitimate uses for malt (yummy!) and hops (a
good ingredient for a nice, calming tea).  On the other hand, I wasn't
allowed to buy airplane glue (polystyrine plastic cement) when I was a
kid because some other kids chose to sniff the stuff for a cheap high.

Where do you draw the line?  It's easy to see a non-beer use for hops
and malt, but not for brewer's yeast (yah, you can bake with it, but
baker's yeast works better for that).



Ray Drouillard




Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:23:27 -0400, "Ray Drouillard"

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actually many bakers prefer brewers yeast.


Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:27:23 -0400, Jack Slopehead

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Hehehe, I like Jack's answer.
Crystal malt is awesome on ice cream.
I think I might go down and talk to the prosecutor. Everyone else I
call always gives me the same answer, "I dunno".
Thanks guys,



Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing

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   Brewer's yeast is high in the B-complex vitamins (See? Beer's good for
you!). Years ago, before I started brewing, I bought some at a health food
store as a food or vita-drink additive. I would imagine that it's still
available in many health food/nutrition shops. I don't believe that they
need to see see ID to sell it. Call your local shop and see if the carry it.

Mysterioso



Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
Mysterioso wrote:

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That's used, dry, dead brewer's yeast..you couldn't use it to brew beer.

    ---------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60 - 1.060, that is.

Reply to denny_dot_g_dot_conn_at_ci_dot_eugene_dot_or_dot_us

Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
Where in Ohio are you; I might need to use the garden supply excuse so I can buy
more home brew supplies!

wrote:

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Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing

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We're in East Rochester, a short distance from Minerva. If you stand
at the blinky light we are a stones throw to the north.
It's north-east on the map, not real far from Canton.
The store is called "Cindy's Plants -N- Stuff", we're listed at L.D.
Carlson's website.
I called the Columbiana County prosecutor and asked them,,,,,,
Reply was, "I dunno",,,, LOL


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Re: Legal question concerning homebrewing
In data Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:06:14 GMT, Plumbum Blimp ha scritto:

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