Recipes Needed

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I was wondering if anyone had a good extract or extract with grain clone
recipe for:

1. Molson Canadian
&
2. Labatt's Blue

Any and all would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.



Re: Recipes Needed


Walter Venables wrote:
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On purpose?? I thought the whole point of making your own beer was to
make beer with flavor, aroma and taste?  If you really, really want to
make mega swill check your LHBS, they usually have swill kits you can buy.

Re: Recipes Needed


Walter Venables wrote:

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Just go to your LHBS and tell them you want a kit for American Swill.

Dick

Re: Recipes Needed


I want recipes not rude opinions. I am not interested in what you think of
these beers. So please do not reply in this manner.

Walter


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Re: Recipes Needed


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[...]

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   Oh, you want the room down the hall. It's Getting Hit
in the Head lessons here.

   On a more serious note, Industrial Lager is a very easy
recipe to formulate, but for a relatively inexperienced
brewer, harder to pull off.  First off, you need temperature
control for both the fermentation phase and the lagering
phase.
   Frankly, if those beers are available to you I daresay
it'd be cheaper and easier to nip on down to the packie and
pick up a case.
--
Joel Plutchak                   "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com            - Eric Cartman

Re: Recipes Needed


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The problem is that cloning an exact beer is very difficult.  Most of the time
you just make a beer in the same category and get as close as you can.  Also,
the type of beers you have picked are some of the most difficult beers to
get right.  Many people have low opinions of them, but they are technically
some of the hardest beers to brew.  Unless you are a very experienced
homebrewer, you're probably not going to be happy with the results.


John.

Re: Recipes Needed


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Ahhh hahaha I was waiting for this.  I've been toying around with
American lager recipes for awhile and can say information on the web
is riddled with a poor attitude towards the style and those that drink
it.  If you had gone through the archives (through groups.google.com
for example) you'd find this trend.

... anyways ...

I don't have a recipe that could approximate Molson or Labatt.  I
never really drank either.  However, Tecate is rather close to my
heart, so I've been taking nibbles towards that here or there.  I can
share my experiences in trying to do American lagers.  So far, I have
done roughly 4 attempts.

General thoughts:
1. 50/50 6-row/adjunct creates a beer too light in body and color.  I
had done a recipe awhile back that was basically Sprite.  I had thrown
in the acid malt which gave it a fruity character.  With a little
haze, I could have made a Belgian Wit with that (and may attempt it
yet).
2. Adding an ever-so-slight specialty grain seems to be the way to
go.  I recommend a 50/50 split with a specialty grain on top of that
to give color and some malt character.  Granted, 3oz of crystal isn't
going to go too far, but it takes an otherwise single-dimension beer
and makes it... wider?  Claiming that makes it two-dimensional might
be too strong.  However, it does help cover up what little flaws you
have, and even these light beers have that slightest hint of some kind
of malt.
3. I have been using the White Labs Czech Budejovice yeast, but
recently decided it just wasn't doing what I wanted.  On the positive
side, their Mexican Pilsener yeast recently became an all-year
strand.  I haven't finished fermenting the current attempt, but it had
a slightly more sulphurous character during fermentation.  For a
Mexican beer, I find this desireable.
4. I think the adjunct of choice for Bud is rice, but use corn for the
rest.

So I know you're aiming for extract, but I don't have much experience
doing this style with anything but all grain.  If I were to BS
something:

For 5 gallons post-boil:

3# Extra-light DME
2# corn sugar (or rice syrup if your adjunct of choice will be rice)
2oz 6-row
2oz Crystal 60L

I gave up on the tap water here for all-grain on these; I cut it with
distilled water.  I don't know if you need to go that far though.
However, my clearest results have come from other water sources.  That
included my first attempt, which *did* use extract.

Consider a yeast nutrient--follow its directions.  It's a lot of
sugars without the good stuff yeast need for healthy bones, happy
minds, and strong libido.

Steep the grains at 142F (as if it really matters for that quantity,
but you want the simple sugars anyways)

Hop an ounce of vintage saaz pellets as a bitter addition (60 minutes)
and nothing else.  The bittering levels for these beers are very
slight so the safe way is to use an aged hop just for preservative
effects.

(I found Tradition pellets at ~1/3 each at 60, 20, and 5 gives a hop
characteristic like Sapparo, FYI)

Use Irish moss in the last 15 minutes.

Ferment with a very clean, aggressive lagering yeast.  You're planning
to lager, right?  If not, it's just a risk, but just use WLP001 since
it's a rather clean (boring?) yeast.  Every day in primary, you will
want to swirl the yeast around, and monitor the temperature of the
fermenting beer often.  The rousing makes sure the beer finishes dry,
and you definately don't want off-flavors from a warm fermentation
here.  On the other hand, you don't want it to get too cold or the
beer will be too sweet.

Make a starter (get extra extract).  Do a diacetyl rest at the end of
primary fermentation.

Consider secondary clarifiers like KC Finings.  Of all styles, you
want this beer to be clear since your drinkers likely expect it.

And for everybody else reading the thread, ignore all that and
chuckle:
How to make an American lager:
1. Pee in bottle
2. Cap it

There, so I don't have to be the pariah. ;p


Re: Recipes Needed


Finally someone who understands. Thank you

Walter
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Re: Recipes Needed


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I think most of us understood what you wanted to do (it's been asked
before).  We also understand that unless you're a very experienced
brewer you're probably going to fail.  That's not a knock against you,
but as I said in a previous thread these types of beers are probably
the most difficult to get right.  The flavors are so light/delicate,
that your brewing has to be almost perfect.  Any minor flaw in your
procedure/technique is going to shine through in the beer as off flavors
and imperfections.  There's just nowhere for mistakes to hide.

I wish you luck, but I wouldn't have high expectations.


John.

Re: Recipes Needed


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[snip]

Seconded.  I've done 4 different iterations of the style.  I haven't
done 4 batches of a good recipe yet.  As far as technique, you have to
have lagering down as well as good beer handling.  And if you're going
all-grain, use double mashing.  As for everything else, it is the
choice and the nature of the ingredients (including the water).


Re: Recipes Needed


In an effort to save the souls of those of us who ruthlessly badgered this
poor fellow, let us also keep in mind that one of the major reasons such
large-scale breweries can pull off the lightest beers (whether you like them
or not, it IS a feat) is simply a combination of two factors:  Economy of
scale, and scale of economy.
These mega-brewers can afford to "spec" ingredients (grain bills, yeast
cultures, etc) because they have the "hooing" of the masses behind them.
However, even with the best ingredients, and most "State of the art"
equipment, never you forget that these Lords Of Lager also comit one of the
most vile and reprehensible acts fathomable to a homebrewer:  they blend and
tweak and recycle batches until the new flock is just like the old flock.
Saints among us if they find the time or money to experiment:  share holders
insist they "Do what works".  Oftentimes in conversations with larger
brewmasters, I'm privy to the age-old tune:  "Home brewers want the
consistancy of the Meister Breu.  Meister Breu want's the freedom and
latitude of the home brewer."  Say I, if it's worth repeating, Enjoy the
craft for the art, if you want a commercial beer, buy a commercial
beer...you're still supporting the field.
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Re: Recipes Needed


Walter Venables wrote:
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The first question is, are you set up for cold fermentatin and
lagering?  If not, a recipe will do you no good.

If you have the equipment to brew a lager, you can start with about any
light lager recipe you find and get really close to one of these.

    ---------->Denny

--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Re: Recipes Needed



A bit late but since you only got one actual recipe, here is a clone of
Labatt that I came across:

Labatt Blue clone

Ingredients:
0.75 lb Briess Light dried malt extract
3.3 lbs Coopers Light liquid malt extract (late addition)
1 lb 6 oz six-row pale malt
10 oz flaked maize
1 lb corn sugar
4.5 AAUs Hallertau hops (60 min)
1AAUs Hallertau hops (30 min)
0.25 oz Saaz hops (0 min)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15 min)
Wyeast 2272 (north american lager) or White Labs WLP800 Pilsner Lager
1 cup corn sugar (for priming)

Place maize and crushed malts in a nylong steeping bag and steep in 3.0
qts of water at 150 F for 45 min. Rince grains with 1.5 qts of water at
170 F. Add water to make 3 gallons. Stir in dried malt extract and bring
to a boil.

Add first charge Hallertau hops and boil for 60 min. Add second charge  of
Hallertau hops with 30 min left in the boil. Add the liquid malt extract,
Irish moss, and Saaz hops with 15 min. left in the boil. Remove from heat.

Cool wort to about 50 F and transfer to fermenting vessel. Top up to 5.0
gallons with water, aerate and pitch yeast. Ferment at 50 F until complete
(ted days to two weeks), then transfer to a secondary vessel for two to
three weeks. Rack into bottles or keg with corn sugar and maintain at
fermentation temperature for three to five days. Finally, drop temperature
to 35-40 F for two or more weeks.



On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:50:22 -0600, Walter Venables wrote:

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