China bush and Clonal bush

I believe "china bush" means that a tea is from C. sinensis rather than C. assamensus. "Clonal bush" means that it's from bushes that are clones from a cutting of a bush that was previously known to produce good tea.

"China bush" may tell you something about the style, but is not necessarily a good or bad thing. "Clonal bush" really doesn't tell you anything at all useful.

--scott

Assamensus and Sinensis are the same. The difference is historical botanical confusion based on the fact the British could never get their hands on Sinensis from China. They classified Assamensus but it is from the same Tropic of Cancer jungle region as Yunnan. In fact Assam is generally believed to be the home of the tea plant not Yunnan which was first cultivated. Cultivated plantations in general are based on a clonal. The bush or clonal assumes the properties of the local soil and weather conditions.

Jim

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Scott Dorseye3nm39$t5b$ snipped-for-privacy@panix2.panix.com5/8/06 10: snipped-for-privacy@panix.com

If I'm not mistaken "clonal" tells us that genetically all the clonal bushes from the same source are exactly the same. When it comes to tomatoes and other vegetables and grains, the loss of genes in the gene pool due to cloning a small number of uniform, homogeneous varieties is now seen as a serious problem. The problem extends into such areas as lack of resistance to diseases, boring tastes, and so on. Why would clonal teas not be subject to the many ills of uniformity brought about by clonal planting?

Michael, speaking on behalf of plants everywhere.

Space snipped-for-privacy@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com5/8/06

11: snipped-for-privacy@ix.netcom.com

You can clone by taking cuttings of the original plant. You can clone from cells/DNA of the original plant, using the technologies under severe scrutiny today as we approach the ability to clone people.

The Michaels

Identical twins don't have to worry about DNA at a crime scene.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:

They would be subject to those ills if there were very few lines in use. I don't think it's come to that, at least not in Darjeeling. But my knowledge isn't very deep. Karsten - are you there?

/Lew

Lewis snipped-for-privacy@panix1.panix.com5/9/06 10: snipped-for-privacy@panix.com

Lew, my understanding is that when you begin an agricultural cloning program, and when you devote your fields to the cloned plant/s, regardless of the number of lines you've got, in effect and by definition you've limited the gene pool. So, we could speak of a degree of harm. We could also speak of making sure that the clonal doesn't completely take over the industry, that (more) naturally occurring plants thrive in sufficient numbers. Anyway, that's my take on it, based on old studies.

Michael

I'm not sure we actually disagree, unless you're saying that *any* use of vegetative reproduction is bad. Cloning isn't different in principle from grafting apple trees or grape vines. Think of it this way: if you like so-called heirloom apples or tomatoes, you're in favor of cloning. It isn't just Monsanto and friends.

/Lew

in one hand a tea garden is not a forest, i mean wild one. parameters applied to forests can be not the same. in a garden the evolution is stopped and manipulated by humans, although a tea garden seems to be part of nature, in fact it is not, at least completely. so talking about lost of diversity, maybe has another meaning than if you talk about forest. maybe the question is, are there still wild plants of camelia sinensis? does exit a virgin forest of camelia sinensis?

in other hand, biodiversity in crops also has been decreasing along the

20th century, the traditional varieties disappeared as global market of seeds grew. for example in spain [i guess in other mediterranean countries] there was to be used a rye class with long long canes, they were used to make many kinds of baskets, and as seeds were not 'prepared' some of them used to have a very poisonous fungus called in spanish 'cornezuelo del centeno' [Claviceps purpurea], quite common in cereals, and more in rye, that was collected by hand, because was very useful in chemistry, and was well paid. now cereals are all treated to avoid this kind of things, and life is quite easier, but the seeds are only one kind, don't know exactly the number of different varieties in cereals, but the point is that the number has decreased, and as in nature, variety has many advantages or pros. i heard anyone not much time ago that those fields of cereals with long canes rocked by the wind in castilla talked by poets will be only just a memory [i didn't even heard of this long canes ...]

this was only an example, i guess is the same with any other crop. only few very very local crops has been developed from traditional seeds, but only because no big multinational factories were interested in production of these seeds, i guess.

in wine cultivation, the ancient indigenous plants are much more valuable than clonal, that 'only' are used to make the plant alive, but the grapes are from ancient clones [in this lands that are still preserved from those past epidemics] to give the wine a particular taste. there are wine labels that only want to produce bottles and bottles with an easy standard taste, and others that want to be different, to be traditional, let's say respectful with their relatives [it's a way of talking] and achieve something that has, let's say, more layers than only a correct product... i think with tea must be something similar, not only producing, but a particular care

regards from madrid, bonifacio barrio hijosa

...site in progress

Hi all,

I 100% agree here. I would say clonal teas from darjeeling are very similar/same in taste character and are missing deep character-full taste of china bush ones. I hate the fruity/spicy sweetnes of clonal darjeelings, it is soooo uniform and boring... But clonal bushes are much more resistent and have better crops and sooner shooting... So in my eyes, clonal darjeelings are strongly commercial teas with no or very low character - but they are more and more popular at market and its prices sometimes are horrible... OK - I know, taste is personal thing and personal preference - so no flame here :-) Just my opinion from more than 200 samples of 2006 FF from darjeeling I tasted this spring and many many samples from last years... For me clonal bush darjeeling is hard punishment of my taste buds :-D

Nice day to all Zdenek

their their their. and i'm supposed to be a writer. jeeeeezzzzz.