Toxins in Chinese teas

My question concerns toxins which would include toxic fertilizers; toxic pesticides and/or any toxic substances added to tea or tea plants at any time during production. This follows an earlier discussion on RFDT Jan. 22 entitled "Cancer causing teas."

Since I prefer organic vegetables, and avoid processed food because of the additives, taking in toxic substances from Chinese tea would negate the amount of extra money, time and energy spent.

How can anyone find out, with any certainty, what nasty substances may be contained in the Chinese tea that is purchased from both Chinese and American vendors?

It was implied that one would not be able to get this information from the vendors. Is that true? Has anyone been able to get this information from any vendors? Which ones?

With the amount of tea that we all drink, this should be a concern for everyone.

Please help, as I would really hate to give up my Chinese teas.

Reply to
windswall
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How are you sure the 'organic' foods you eat dont contain any 'toxics'? To be certified as 'organic', the farmers only have to AVOID some substances, but you never know what else they put in their production - things that are not specifically prohibited as of yet. Organics are big money so ...unless I personally know a farmer i wouldn't believe anything they say.

I am > My question concerns toxins which would include toxic fertilizers;

Reply to
SN

I think the short answer is.... no, you can't find out.

Even if a tea were certified organic, it doesn't mean that no toxins are in there. It just means they're not farming it with fertilizers and pesticides and that sort of thing. If the water that they use to irrigate the tea plants are filled with toxins... well, too bad. Water is organic, apparently. Water quality in China, as you must know, is not high. And if the toxins come with rainfall ... well, you can't really stop rain from coming down, can you?

Mind you, the same can be true for organic farmers in Ohio or other heavily polluted states in the US, at least as far as I know anyway...

So my suggestion is... don't worry too much. At least tea is good for you. If anything, I'm much more concerned about the amount of fire- retardant in our furniture, the chemicals in food packaging.... etc

MarshalN

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Reply to
MarshalN

To put it short, one way to go for you would be some form of kinesiologic testing - [flames pleeeeease]. Easy to learn, quick to apply, ... if it fits into your belief system.

Just my 2 gr. Karsten

Reply to
psyflake

My personal outlook on this is basically a shrug. I pretty much look at it from the perspective that any health benefits are at least neutralized by things like toxins/pesticides.

I referenced it before but there is a documentary on the Documentary Channel (go figure :) about Iraq. They grow a lot of okra, and they go into the effects of the first Gulf War and the massive number of "dirty" bombs dropped. The okra (and basically any plant) not only pulls this radioactivity into it from the soil and groundwater but it then concentrates it in the fruit (or buds). The rate of cancers is up by thousands of percents in recent years.

China is about as polluted as it gets anymore, so I have no doubt the situation is much more similar than we'd hope as far as tea goes.

Those are the things no one really thinks about until it is too late, its scary but unfortunately very real. Just because the farm/product is certified organic doesn't say anything about the ground water, irrigation water, air quality, soil, etc.

Sorry, no rosy outlook from me :)

- Dominic

Reply to
Dominic T.

Laboratory assay.

The vendors don't know. If they asked the farmers, hell, the farmers may have no idea what they are putting on their crops, or what was on the ground they are using. And they might not tell the truth anyway even if they did know.

It is another reason to practice moderation. Don't just drink one kind of tea all the time.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Umm... which side was using these bombs?

--scott

I think I would be much more worried about lead and residue from depleted uranium. Depleted uranium isn't quite as bad as lead but it's still a heavy metal.

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

The US and Britain. I have no axe to grind with the US or the military either, I have very close friends and relatives that are/have served. The bombs were mainly depleted uranium.

Here is a link:

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I believe it mentions the name of the documentary but I can't remember if that was indeed the one I saw. Also, just for some background one of my close friends in college was from Iraq and regardless of politics, bias, or documentaries to hear and see photo's directly from him was astonishing and far beyond what gets told in the usual outlets.

- Dominic

Reply to
Dominic T.

Pretty scary stuff. I think I will throw out all the cheap chinese green tea bags I have. I think I'll stick to Japanese tea......surely they must practice more ethical farming methods. China sounds pretty much like a free-for-all.

Pete

Reply to
ostaz

Do Hiroshima and Nagasaki ring any bells? Japan is most certainly not any safer than anywhere else even without taking nukes into account. Sometimes our ideallic views and notions of these other lands keep us from seeing the real story. They have just as many if not more problems in these areas as we do.

It can be scary, but that's just a fact of life anymore. All you can do is try your best to take in the healthiest choices possible within reason, and live like there is no tomorrow. No regrets, no coulda/ woulda/shoulda's, and enjoy some tea along the way.

- Dominic

Reply to
Dominic T.

Depleted uranium is not used in bombs. It is marginally radioactive (it's less radioactive than a brick and a lot less than a cigarette). It's used in bullets, because it's denser than lead and the higher mass gives you more force. It's what is left over when you remove the useful isotopes from uranium.

It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with "dirty bombs." It's kind of nasty since it's a heavy metal, though less so than lead. You should wash your hands after handling it.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Very informative article from

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Organic Agriculture is Booming--Even in China

ORGANIC FOOD Cultivating Kinder Crops

Driven by fears of pesticide-poisoned foods, consumers are rushing to buy organic. China is cashing in on the trend, with greener produce

By Bruce Gilley/WUYUAN Issue cover-dated February 22, 2001

WHEN THE CRAZE for organic food hit Western countries in the mid-1990s, Wuyuan, a tea-growing county of 330,000 people high in the hills of northeastern Jiangxi province, was perfectly suited to benefit.

Here at the head of six different rivers, forests abound and the air is clean. Factories are banned and cancer rates are almost nil. White cranes from Siberia spend the winters here. Western scientists have found two other bird species in the remote county that were long thought extinct.

In 1997, the county's best-known product, its green tea, passed the stringent organic-food tests of the European Union and was certified for sale there. The same year, the county's monopoly green-tea producer, Wuyuan Green Tea, was renamed Wuyuan Organic Foods. Since then, the company has secured EU certification for organic mushrooms, fungus and Chinese medicine ingredients and is now seeking certification for chickens and sesame paste.

The company's exports to the West, still mostly tea, topped $3 million last year. That's not bad for a place whose most famous export until now was a Song dynasty scholar named Zhu Xi who coined the anti-capitalist slogan: "Focus on scholarship not on business."

"We were surprised when we realized that we had perfect conditions to grow organic foods," says Hong Peng, president of Wuyuan Organic Foods and a graduate of tea studies at nearby Zhejiang University."People began to say: 'Wuyuan's environmental protection is finally going to pay off'."

The rise of Wuyuan Organic comes against a backdrop of surging Western demand for organic foods and a nascent but quickly developing domestic market in China itself, driven by fears of unsafe foods.

Sales of organic foods by the country's 800 government-certified producers reached $4 billion last year, of which about $140 million comprised exports, both up 20% from a year earlier. While organic foods were seen as a foreign eccentricity until recently, a series of health scares in China over poisoned food sparked interest at home too. Specialized supermarkets in China's big cities now stock everything from organic soy sauce and lychees to delicacies such as organic pig face.

"The term 'organic food' is now part of everyone's vocabulary," says Shi Songkai of the semi-official China Organic Foods Research Centre.

With domestic demand for organic produce set to surge as consumers turn their backs on pollution-laced crops, every province in China is scrambling to find remaining patches of pristine countryside for organic farming. While unchecked growth has turned much of China's most fertile countryside into a toxic blight, some parts remain comparatively unscathed, especially in the mountainous regions of central provinces like Jiangxi.

The COFRC, set up by the Ministry of Agriculture in 1992 but now under state-owned food company China Seeds Corp., has established a certification scheme which closely mirrors the schemes in the EU and the United States to monitor products. As in Europe and the U.S. they check not only the soil, air and water quality to ensure the absence of toxins which can enter the food, but also production methods to ensure they are natural and not harmful to humans or the environment. So far, Japan recognizes the COFRC's standards and Germany and France are expected to follow this year.

TOXIC FOOD SCARES Situated in a remote mountainous county covering 3,000 square kilometres and with 59 farms under its ambit, Wuyuan Organic is ideally suited for organic production. Just as the county's idyllic surroundings keep its organic foods untarnished, growing bouts of negative publicity about nonorganic foods in China is helping sales too. Not a week goes by when the domestic media does not report some startling revelation about the toxicity of the country's regular foods.

A study of fruit and vegetables sold in Beijing revealed that 20% contained pesticide residues in excess of state standards, the China Youth Daily reported last year. The COFRC says that illegal pesticides continue to be sold widely, despite bans. News like this has sent consumers scurrying for organic labels.

Wuyuan's big break came last year when the Shanghai branch of the State Quality Inspection Bureau revealed the results of a study of 61 types of China's most famous teas. They showed that 19 of the teas did not meet the lowest quality standards for metal and other chemical contents, 13 of them because of high levels of lead. Most of the offenders--some of which contained nine times more lead than the maximum acceptable levels--came from producers around Zhejiang province's heavily polluted Western Lake. The most famous of those,Dragon Well tea produced by Western Lake Dragon Well Tea Co.,saw sales plummet as a result, according to mainland news reports.

But it helped Wuyuan Organic's sales. The Shanghai Tea Drinkers Association annual list of the country's 10 best teas, published in December, had Wuyuan's flagship Dazhang Mountain tea in the No. 3 spot, its first appearance on the prestigious list. Hong expects sales to double to around $6 million in the next two years, with most of the growth coming from the domestic tea market.

"The China Tea Association criticised the Inspection Bureau for releasing the report to the public. But I think they did the right thing in letting consumers know the truth," says Hong.

As other regions latch onto the organic boom, however, Wuyuan Organic will have to be nimble to prosper. Officials in neighbouring Zhejiang province, for example, haunted by the spectre of seeing their huge tea industry wiped out by damaging reports, have set up their own organic-foods certification scheme with government investment. While Zhejiang's scheme is not recognized by the EU, it could pose a threat to Wuyuan's near-monopoly of the organic-tea market.

Hong worries that if he doesn't move quickly, larger companies from other provinces will snare the domestic market in organic produce. One of his strategies is to branch out into other foods. He is now seeking COFRC certification for bamboo shoots, peaches and pears.

The company was due to exhibit at Germany's Biofach organic food fair, the world's biggest, for the fourth straight year in mid-February. Hong says sales there are modest, but the information he gains on consumer trends is invaluable. "We used to go there to sell. Now we go to learn," he says.

But keeping up with the food giants could be tough. While Wuyuan is a beautiful place to grow tea, it is four hours from the nearest airport and five from the provincial capital, Nanchang. "We're in a perfect place for production but not for marketing," says Hong.

To raise capital, the company is restructuring itself as a shareholding company, hoping eventually to list shares on a domestic market. But Hong says state banks and investors alike remain wary of putting money into such a nascent industry.

The company's best option may be to link up with one of the big domestic food groups that could give it the marketing network and capital to survive the competition. Fuzhou-based organic-fruit-and-vegetable producer Chaoda Modern Agriculture listed on the Hong Kong stock exchange in December, for example, in a sign of the growing clout of organic-food companies.

Either way, the company seems bound to be swallowed by carpet-baggers from either home or abroad. For now though, Wuyuan Organic is enjoying bumper profits as the global green wave washes into this remote corner of China.

Reply to
ostaz

It is possible you are correct, Dominic, but this statement is contrary to my knowlege of the subject, which while reasonable, is not extensive. I have been to Japan and did a lot of reading/research before I went. It was my understanding from this that standards of food and water sanitation in Japan were extremely high, and that food and beverages served for public consumption were safe to eat anywhere. I have not been to China personally, but everything I hear from visitors as well as the things I read lead me to believe that this is definitely not the case there.

Thus, my default conclusion would be that tea from Japan would be generally safer than that from China. But I've got an open mind on the subject, and would gladly listen to arguments for why this is not the case.

Randy

Reply to
RJP

Good point. I think I'll just have a beer....I can make that at home. ;)

Pete

Reply to
ostaz

this is what my mind-set was. I know that Japan leads the world in enviromnental issues (lile Kyoto) so I assumed that thier food safety standards must also be fairly high at least compared to China, whose business practices are often far from ethical.

Pete

Reply to
ostaz

Toxic rain and other stuff notwithstanding, there are still going to be less pesticides / toxins in plants that are grown without pesticides, on land where pesticides haven't been used in XXX years.

[ Addressing the OP here, not Marshall ]

There is tea in China that is USDA certified organic, and also tea that's IMO certified. But organic certification can be faked, farmers, distributers and intermediaries can lie, so you're probably never going to be completely certain that what you're getting is "organically grown". There are plenty of people who are just trying to make an extra buck by selling something as "organic".

As others have said in this thread, even buying stuff that is actually certified organic doesn't mean that you're going to have tea that's completely free of environmental toxins.

I haven't dealt with them myself, but I've heard good things about 7 cups; maybe check out their site:

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seems to have some certified products; maybe others can speak to their trustworthiness.

Some general certification information:

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Reply to
Will Yardley

That leads to a question of pu-erh wrapper and neifei, I have noticed that some factories put blank side - the one without any pictures facing tea and all colorful stuff on the other side, is dye used in china safe as it can be interacting with tea for like 20 or 30 years, OTOH by the time I get the tea it was already for some time there.

Xi-Zhi Hao "Tai Chi Series - Yan", for example has a beautiful wrapper that is mostly black and am curious how it was made (tea is great by the way), if I remember it correctly Guang has mentioned on his site that he recommends to wrap the tea in the white paper and keep the original wrapper framed on the wall, is it mostly because of it artistic qualities? houde site is down currently for some time, hope that my quote is correct.

Oleg

Reply to
oleg shteynbuk
*snip*
*snip*

If they use paper printing ink like most people do, it should be a soy- based ink which is perfectly fine to be in contact with. It's what all the newspapers are printed with nowadays.

-Steven

Reply to
Steven Dodd
*snip*

I'm sort of in the category of "I don't care, it tastes good". Health has never been a factor in my drinking tea, I drink it because I really enjoy it. Of course I'd prefer things to be as clean as possible, but for now I'm young and invincible. I'll drink my tea in ignorance.

When I saw the "cancer causing teas" thread, I thought, "I'll be 90 in a medical bed drinking tea even though I have a tea-related illness" sort of like a certain habit-forming plant product.

Oh well, here's to tea! Cheers *clink* Steven

Reply to
Steven Dodd

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