www.aromaserene.com

I must be getting old, haha! For I'm too lazy to write more about Aromaserene, instead, I'll just quote from a book:

"London is plagued with a great number of mock-sorcerers who trick the people out of their money by promising them all sorts of unlikely things. I wonder, have you seen Vinculus, who has a little booth outside St Christopher Le Stocks? He is the worst of them. You are a theoretical magician, I imagine?"

- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell

We are coming to the age of demystifying tea, not returning to the old ways...and for someone to say they do not know the grade of an old 1965 Menghai Tea Factory brick, they certainly need a new spiritual director.

PS & PS & PS...Menghai Tea Factory produced brick tea in 1965? Haha! The chi of the tea ain't telling the truth.

Danny

Oahspe wrote:

snipped-for-privacy@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com2/23/06

23: snipped-for-privacy@aromaserene.com

Wow. Very interesting indeed. Will you kindly elaborate on what you mean by "sincerity" in this context? Also please explain how tea is used as a "spiritual tool." Does that connect to the concept of "sincerity"?

You have all meditated, drunk tea, and lived in Asia. Do you share a particular meditation practice? I would like to hear more about the deeper meditations and subtleties of tea as you experience them. After all, tea is many things to many people, and I always try to respect the various ways people engage tea, especially those ways that are not mine. Hence my questions for you. Thank you. Please discuss this with us here, as I am trying to defragment my participation, and not open yet more venues. (This in answer to your kind invitation to join your forum.)

On a more mundane note, your site features an attractive and functional goard strainer. What is the cost of that strainer?

Michael

I'm sorry. I had forgotten to ask what we should call you; unless you want to be known as Oahspel, which is awkward if that is not your name. Cordially, Michael

Michael PlantC02861EF.3DB95% snipped-for-privacy@pipeline.com/27/06

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Methinks it was a certain canned-ham post, but in case it was legit... I was interested in the gourd strainer too... and did anyone notice the big tip about NEVER letting metal come in contact with your water or tea? See I knew I wasn't totally insane. It must be a common thing, I knew I had read it a few places.

- Dominic

Dominic snipped-for-privacy@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com2/27/06

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Hi Dominic,

Not sure I know what a "canned-ham" post is. The strainer is a nice idea, I think; organic and functional, and takes on a life of its own. No, you were not insane. I use no metal except the aluminium rod of the thermometer, when I use that. I am not however entirely convinced that the effect of a little metal on the tea would be that detrimental. But, who knows.

Michael

>

"canned ham" would be spam....

Jason F in Los snipped-for-privacy@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com2/27/06

11: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com

Of course! Silly of me. Thanks, Jason. No, not spam. Not on my end. Michael

I am absolutely certain no post of yours is spam Michael, I was just saying that I wouldn't hold my breath for a reply from the OP about anything because most likely it was just a spam-and-run posting and the person will never be back (if it was a person at all).

- Dominic

Inside this post, you can see the way many Chinese in China view "Westerners"; Westerner being a term for non-Chinese, that is, people from every country in the entire world besides China. Living here for

2 years now, and being able to speak semi-fluent Chinese, it's easy to see that most people over here think that it's impossible for a "Westerner" to understand anything about China and it's impossible for those outsiders to learn. It's so passively condescending, it's sickening. Tea is no different. I have sat down with many a fake tea boss (shop opened basically for money laundering or opened by his "rich investor friends) and listen him to spin yarns about everything from the healing properties of tea to the 20 year old tea that he's willing to sell me for about 10 bucks.

Well, Oahspe, or whatever your name is, many of the folks on this here old group have probably been drinking your secret and mysterious Chinese tea longer than your shop has been open. We aren't so interested in your helping us with our uncouth tea drinking, and we don't need your egotistical spam.

the gardens >of the mind. A place of meditative silence. And of course a place where the best of teas >have also come to find their peace. Imagine a tea shop in a rural Chinese town with >hardly a sign outside to speak of, yet through the little garden one may meditate >amongst waterfalls, Bonsai trees and millions and millions of dollars worth of tea. It took >us ten years of meditating and tea drinking to find this place, and for a long time we >wanted it to remain the mystical secret it was for us. But recently, as more Westerners >begin drinking tea, we have decided to share our fortune with the world. This isn't our job

We >are here only to open doors beyond your experience and show you some glimpses of >paradise:

Millions of dollars worth of tea you say? Your bliss must be coming from the over-inflated prices that you value your teas at. You would have to have a store as large as Wal-mart to be able to say that you have millions worth in tea.

I find this rather hillarious considering that 100 percent of the tea shops IN CHINA use an electric kettle for heating the water, use a metal strainer (or two) when pouring the tea , and pack their tea in plastic bags that sometimes have aluminum foil linings. I frankly don't see another way of doing it, unless you want to use cheese cloth or some kind of plastic mesh. That "gourd" strainer is plastic. You can pick them up here at market for less than a dollar apiece.

Sickening, truly sickening.

Hi Mydnight,

I've got a gourd strainer sitting right here on my desk 30 cm from my hand, and it's *not* plastic. That doesn't mean that the one in the web page picture isn't plastic, but just to say that such things do exist. Mine does age gracefully, just as the OP said it would. I got mine here in NYC.

Michael

They indeed do exist, but the one on the website looks identical to the ones I can get at market for pennies. His website looks like it was contrived only for the purpose of cheating people into thinking tea is a mysterious thing that us dumb foreigners would never be able to understand. So, I doubt the authenticity of his "hand-made" gourd strainers.

snipped-for-privacy@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com2/28/06

11: snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com

Yes, I wasn't defending, just sharing what I know. Tea is decidedly not a mystery; it's a pleasure to be taken in whatever way and with whatever seriousness or whatever frivolity you want to bring to it. I know of no insincere tea myself, although I do know styles I don't take for my own. Humor aside, that's my view of it.

On the other hand, and there is another hand, we can train ourselves to taste, smell, differenciate, and otherwise appreciate ever more subtle nuances, no? So there could be a serious side, and that could easily be a vehicle for spiritual development, if we had a mind to go there. Same could be said for the frivolous side, since there is, I *sincerely* hope, room for more than one way. So, there you go. Michael pontificates again.

Michael

Dear Friends,

You must understand that this is not our living. We created a site to offer some of the amazing teas here at more affordable prices, for barely a profit beyond our own expenses.

Your negativity and judgement of people for being spiritual about their tea, your accusations of fraudulence and underestimation of how much tea is available does not in any way demean our effort, practise or commitment. On the contrary, such behaviour only demonstrates your own prejudice, ego and lack of discrimination.

All of our teas are 100% authentic. We offer samples of all of the loose leafs and some of the bricks/beenchas on a case by case basis. There is only a limited amount of each tea even available for order online. We don't blame you for doubting what you see. We have been to tea houses in many countries and have yet to find one like this. Meng Hai did indeed produce bricks in 1965, and they are listed in the Puerh anthologies readily available here and in China. In fact, there are bricks older than that even. There is also a Puerh museum here in Taiwan. If you go to their site you can find even older bricks with photos and descriptions:

Having millions of dollars worth of tea is not far fetched at all. If you can read Chinese and check the Puerh anthologies you will see that there are hundreds of beenchas that exceed 25,000 U.S dollars in value. Just 1 month ago a 1920 beencha was sold to a Chinese tea drinker for more than 800,000 Taiwan dollars, which is almost 25,000 U.S. Furthermore, anyone who has traveled in China during harvest time can testify to the fact that the highest grades of many teas are often auctioned off for incredible amounts of money. Last autumn's prize winning An Xi Tie Guan Yin measured 2000grams and sold for more than

10,000 US dollars to a man from Hong Kong. Furthermore, the statement was made as a reference to the fortune of teas that are here and our desire to share them with others-- a sincere desire born out of love for tea, not condescension; and definately not fraudulance. Again, check out

This tea shop has been open for more than 40 years and collecting, storing puerh teas for that long. Besides the shop, there are two warehouses-- one for older and one for newer puerhs. At one time the owner was a valued tea taster for many factories in China. Through that job he established connection throughout China, Hong Kong and Taiwan and was able to gain access to purchasing rights over some rare teas, some of which (like the Tibetan tea we have featured this month) only make it to one or two destinations beyond their source.

As for the decision not to use metal. It is ours. Occasionally we also bag our teas in aluminum lined bags. In some instances it can't be helped. But we do our best. The alternative solution is a plastic substitute that looks and feels like the aluminum counterpart. However, these need to be specially ordered and are sometimes too expensive. We can notice the difference between water boiled in a metal kettle and that boiled in ceramic or glass. We might add that even the ancients like Lu Yu proscribed using metal instruments. However, this is a matter of taste. If you aren't appreciating the chi in your tea, if you don't notice the difference, or if you don't mind, even if you like metal-- go ahead and use it. We would never come here and insult you for it. We are just relating our experiences, and there are over 50 memebers in our Cha Dao Research Society.

Your choice not to participate in tea as meditation is fine. It can be refreshment too. It can mean anything to anyone. However, before your view the world as composed solely of liars, before you cast judgement on those who may be sincere, take the time to get to know them and their motives. Perhaps you aren't so different, and your pedestal not so high.

We wish you all truth and happiness May peace shower your trails And all those they cross

Aroma Serene

P.S. the gourd strainers are not plastic. They are made from real gourds. We aren't selling them in this issue but may perhaps do so later. They retail in this store for around 10 US dollars, though I have seen them for cheaper around China/Taiwan/Hong Kong. And they aren't secret mystical or magical tools. Actually they are quite common. Again, your negativity and quick judgement betrays you.

My name is Erick and I too am with Aroma Serene. I must tell you that I only recently started drinking teas, about 2 years ago. The founders of this site are really what they say they are. I know this will look strange coming from the same computer and account as their post above, but I dnot have my own computer now. These guys are very serious about tea. We regularly drink amazing teas for hours and hours in silence. These guys have been amazing to me. They read, write and speak chinese fluently and have so much to offer a Westerner like me learning about tea. I feel fortunate to have found this place, and am glad to be a part of trying to help spread some of its amazing teas. I agree that sometimes they sound abit eccentric, but its just who they are. I also agree with them that judging doesnt help anyone. If you like it participate, If you dont that is cool too. No need to get rude and all.

Just my two cents Erick

I can understand where you are coming from, but you need to realize that no matter how well intentioned or eccentric someone is you are NEVER going to get a positive reaction by jumping into a newsgroup and making your first post be an advertisement. Become a member of the group, read it for a week or so, get a feel for the people there, then actually post relavent information and share in discussions. Once you know what the group is all about, then you can make your point or pitch your product in a much better light and with much less hostility.

The responses you have received are pretty much what you should expect for jumping into a newsgroup and making your first post a cryptic advertisement. You would gain a lot more credibility and support if you had started with the two posts above first explaining who you are and what you are about, and THEN post information about your business.

Ease up, you guys have no authority to come in here and try to chastise the longstanding members and the responses you received. Tact is a wonderful thing, learn it.

- Dominic

Well, maybe you could say it's almost near-impossible. I mean, it would take years or even decades to first learn to speak Chinese, and read and write the language. And that's only modern Chinese. If you wanted to read anything from the Ming dynasty or earlier, good luck trying. Most Chinese dread 文言文。 And since they find it too difficult to read, how then, could Westerners hope to understand it? And anyway, Chinese culture is so deep and broad, it would take decades of serious, dedicated study to understand much of anything. So in other words, a casual learner of Chinese might understand the general meaning of something, but be unable to grasp the deeper, inner meaning. You need to understand the cultural context of a lot of written works or anything else.

And besides, China is a big country, with weird customs and different languages and dialects spoken in every part of the country. So most Chinese don't know everything about Chinese culture - they're only familiar with a small part of it. How then could Westerners hope to learn it all?

"Your negativity and judgement of people for being spiritual about their tea, your accusations of fraudulence and underestimation of how much tea is available does not in any way demean our effort, practise or commitment. On the contrary, such behaviour only demonstrates your own prejudice, ego and lack of discrimination."

Your prices are something horrendous for teas that you include little to no information about. You even fail to classify them in the most basic of ways: categorically.

"All of our teas are 100% authentic...Meng Hai did indeed produce bricks in 1965, and they are listed in the Puerh anthologies readily available here and in China."

Supply more information to prove their authenticity and justify charging your price, and you might also meet a better response. On Taobao.com, a 1961 beeng is fetching upwards of $6,000.00--how could you be charging only $200 for 1965 bricks? If I'm going to meditate with my tea, it shouldn't be a meditation on whether or not I bought a fake.

Sites like

, , and others manage to provide as much information as they can. Puerh is especially contentious: read recent posts and you'll see people living in China who lament that they can't find tea aged more than 10 years on the market that isn't faked. If you have the annals, post the information on the site!

"Again, your negativity and quick judgement betrays you."

Rec.food.drink.tea is a group of tea conoisseurs, fans, and fanatics. We'll judge any vendor by its merits, but at present I wouldn't say your site merits much but disregard.

Again, and this is truly the last time I shall reply-- perhaps to your joy-- your judgement is quick and cursive and misinformed. We have provided as much information as we can. We are NOT the proprieter of this shop. This is NOT our livelyhood and since we don't need to mark our teas way up we can sell them for Asian costs. That was the whole point of beginning the site. If you choose not to try, so be it. The

1965 brick is 300$ not 200$ and We have supplied as much information as we have on it.

I have surveyed all the sites that are vending tea in English, including those you mentioned and a lot of them are overpriced. An example: One site lists a 1960's cake for 1,200$ dollars. However that particular beencha was processed in Yunnan and grown elsewhere. The tea is considered lower quality. We currently have around 150 of them in a warehouse and the Puerh museum in Taiwan also has 100. Here in Taiwan they sell for about 300$, which is 1/4 of the price they go for in America. And that 300$ price is at all 3 locations I know that have them. Email the museum and ask them, they will quote you the same. Another: "1980's" mushroom toucha listed for around 350$ on more than one site. They don't tell you whether it is the 86, 88 or 89 all of which exist. Even the 86 doesnt cost near that much at any of the three large Puerh vendors in Taiwan.

You are correct that there is not much good tea on the mainland. I personally have made 8 trips there, a few times for months at a time and beside the super quality teas that are auctioned off at exhorbitant prices I can't affford, I too haven't seen anything impressive. Our owner helps send some teas to a small shop there and they end up selling the teas for double their cost here. It has always, historically, been that way. Tea farms and factories could always make more money exporting their quality teas than keeping them domestic. If you can read Chinese you can find many books and articles about all of the government plans to try to domesticate tea when they finally became interested in it. It was difficult because many farms had verbal contracts with dealers in Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc...

I have seen a lot of good teas both private and for sale in Hong Kong, and to a lesser extent Singapore, but I think since the cultural revolution it has been primarily Taiwan that has preserved the most Chinese culture. When all the art, paintings, etc. were destroyed in the revolution the largest % of what was saved was brought to Taiwan, including the artists themselves. The Taiwanese National Art Museum is the largest repository of Chinese art in the world. Similarly a lot of tea came with the people that moved here. A lot was smuggled. The owner and founder of this place remembers meeting the smuggler boats in the local port to buy new Puerhs in the 50's and 60's.

As I stated, our Cha Dao Research Society is 40 years old and currently has over 50 members. These people have been storing Puerh tea in 2 warehouses and 1 shop for those entire 40 years.

Neverthless, let us just agree to disagree and move on. You don't appreciate what we have to offer that is fine. We aren't tea merchants. I personally already own two succesful businesses. This is just a project born of service. We have already sold 75% of the samples we have available online. So there are others that don't feel as you do. When they arrive and people drink them, they will know the validity of our claims or not. The rest is just words, and I must admit that it is my own pride that has motivated me to rebuttle here. I apologize for that. It is time for me to move on towards positivity.

I sincerely wish you happiness and peace and apologize for my intrusion. We are not tea businessmen, nor could we be-- selling only 4 teas a month and only around 5 - 10 of each. We just wanted to help show you that there are places where a lot of good tea exists for cheaper than a look around the internet would seem. It pains me that your judgement will prevent you from also enjoying some of what we enjoy. Neverthless, continue on happier and confident that we shall leave you undisturbed, friends.

Aroma Serene