The Group Charter (Long)

What follows below is essentially a repost of a post I made in August 2003 but seems especially pertinent now.

I have attempted to make very clear the distinction between my own material and my quotes from posts to the newsgroup.

My opinions are just my own opinions; no more valid than yours, or anyone's, while matters of fact are either correct or incorrect. All of the materials quoted express someone's opinion, and should be regarded as no more than that. But I would not have quoted them if I didn't think they had something informative or entertaining to say.

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The Group's Charter

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A newsgroup's charter is it's basic statement of purpose.

The charter for alt.drinks.scotch-whisky was posted by Mr_Grimm ( snipped-for-privacy@dave-world.net) (who along with Bushido was the co-founder of this neswgroup) on June 17, 1998 as part of the rough draft of the FAQ, and reposted by Johanna ( snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca) in 2001. Other posts of the charter may have occurred.

This is from Johanna's repost.

This is the charter for alt.drinks.scotch-whisky:

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From: Johanna ( snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca) Subject: Newsgroup Charter Newsgroups: alt.drinks.scotch-whisky Date: 2001-05-08 20:06:02 PST

[Note: I have snipped a paragraph of conversation relevant to the topics of May 2001 - Bart]

The Charter:

This unmoderated newsgroup is intended for the non-commercial discussion of blended and single malt Scotch whisky. The acceptable topics of discussion include but not limited to Tasting Notes; fermentation, distillation and aging techniques in use at different distilleries; Blended vs Single Malt; current single/single and cask strength offerings and their location; Merchant bottling vs distillery; food, cigars and activities that complement Scotch whisky and events pertaining to Scotch whisky.

This newsgroup is for the discussion of Scotch whisky with the intent of increasing the level of knowledge we have about the most distictive beverage on this planet. The greater our knowledge of Scotch whisky the more we can appreciate it and the efforts of those who produce it.

Welcome. Share your knowledge and pleasent experiances over a wee dram of the water of life.

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That's it.

Notice that while discussions of food, cigars or even "activities" are officially On Topic - as long as they are those "that complement Scotch whisky" - discussions of other whiskies (i.e.... Irish Whiskey, Canadian Whisky, and Bourbon and American Whiskey) are not. Nevertheless, from the inception of the newsgroup occasional discussions of Irish and Canadian whiskies were common. Discussion of American whiskeys also occurred but with less frequency.

Whether such discussions should be allowed was an early issue, although unlike many groups on USENET, issues have arisen in the most polite manner in this group. A consensus seemed to form that while Off-Topic strictly speaking, unless such discussions overtook the discussion of scotch whisky there was no need to invoke any rules against them or request users to refrain. If they did become a large percentage of the traffic volume in the group then perhaps new newsgroups should spin off. As far as I know this never happened. There was a newsgroup (no longer active I believe) devoted to Irish Whiskey but I believe it arose independently of this group. And these discussions of other whiskies have added another interesting view on the world of whisky.

Mr_Grimm's take on it was as follows:

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From: Mr_Grimm ( snipped-for-privacy@dave-world.net) Subject: Re: Orig>

I have for a period of six months been soliciting email and posted > responses on the commercial scotch whisky distiller's forums and > gathering user statisitics from other ng's and web pages for the > creation of alt.whisky.single-malt or alternatively > rec.food.drink.single-malt. I just went to alt.config to post my > proposal and lo and behold I found this ng. When did this come > into being? My proposal was slightly different in that it would > also encompass discussion of single-malt and vatted Irish, Japanese, > Canadian, and Bourbons but did not anticipate blends or whiskies > in general. What does this group think about expanding your charter > to include the discussions of other singles besides scotch? > > Awaiting your responses. > > Slainte, > -- > Brian > >

Brian,

I started playing with the idea of a Scotch newsgroup about 6 months ago as well. Great minds and all that. :) I spent a couple months researching the process, then a couple months gathering readership statistics, then I proposed the group about three weeks ago after bouncing the idea off of some others.

I really have no problem with people discussing other single malts. I probably won't be involved in them, but that is certainly no reason to object. As I see it currently, traffic is low enough that non-Scotch malts wouldn't be a problem. In the future that may change...more non-scotch traffic than Scotch or something. Of course that could be remedied with the creation of a sister/parallel newsgroup, yes?

Pretty much, I don't care what gets discussed as long as it has some tangential reference to Scotch.

Mr_Grimm

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Cigars and tobacco caused another dispute to arise, which was more philosphic than organizational. Some people enjoyed smoking a cigar as an adjunct to enjoying a whisky, while others argued that smoking diminished one's ability to taste, and therefore enjoy a whisky. Smoking also brings out strong feelings in its devotees and critics, and while the conversation was never abusive feelings could get hurt, and people did get defensive. Most would allow that one should enjoy whisky however one enjoys it (and, unlike in a bar or restaurant, on the web second-hand smoke was never an issue), but it is no surprise that no consensus was reached between smokers and non-smokers as to whether smoking enhances or diminishes perceptions of flavor and aroma, before the whole issue just dried up and blew away.

One issue is explicitly excluded in the charter: commercial discussions of whisky. A broad category that was never defined more specifically in conversation in the newsgroup, probably intended to limit advertising by merchants, but would also include discussions about the sale of whiskies. At times there have been strong sentiments expressed that whisky is for drinking, not collecting or investing. But information about corporate affairs such as which distilleries are opening and closing, information and remarks about high prices paid at auction or charged for rare and expensive whiskies, the price and availability of various whiskies in various locales, and discussions about online ordering of whiskies have been constant fodder for conversation.

Offers to sell your whiskies to the members of the newsgroup or notices of whiskies you have for sale are not encouraged and would certainly be within the "commercial discussions" the charter excludes. Nevertheless, such postings have never been common enough to arouse much animosity.

Another "commercial" topic is so common that it would have to be included in a true list of Frequently Asked Questions. That would be, "I have found an old bottle of (insert whisky name). How much is it worth?" Usually the poster is not a regular participant in the conversation, and perhaps has no personal interest in whisky. They've come into something they know is old or rare, and they're appealing to "the experts" for some guidance. Some answers, by no means complete, to this common query...

...will be collated and given later.

Or so I said at the time, but they never were...

Bart

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Reply to
Bart
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Guilty as charged. My apologies to anyone offended by the idea of somebody telling them about whisky for sale ;-) No, seriously, I know I should have asked first but then - as was pointed out by another poster - some would have said "ok", others not.

Thanks for that, and thanks for the FAQ, might I suggest someone post them monthly so that newbies will be able to find them?

Cheers

UD

Reply to
Uncle Dave

Boy is this getting tiresome.

I can only speak for myself, but the offensive thing is your continual patronization of our intelligence. Either that or you are ignorant. It can only be one of the two, because almost all newsgroups operate with similar tolerances: if you are a regular contributor, and people respect you, then people will do the spamming for you, or ask your advice. And you admit to not knowing that. So, if you *do* know that, then you are lying, and if you *do not* knw that, then you are ignorant. By ignorant, I do not mean "dumbass," I mean "lacking insight."

So far your posts have been limited to (1) spam, and (2) defense of your spam. The naive among us are quick to forgive you, and the rest of us keep calling you out. Do me a favor and don't respond to this with another "I didn't know any better" post, or "wow, you should really mellow out, cuz I dinnunt mean anything." If you want respect of the group, stick around and contribute to the group. If you are sincere, you will be welcome by all, including me and those who have rebuked you. If you are not, you will surely go away in a week or so, the sooner the better.

John

Reply to
John Derby

John just nailed the situation perfectly. Over in one of the woodworking groups, are a couple of guys who build, well, the equivalent of a fine 20 year old single-malt, but in hand planes. They contribute a hell of a lot of knowledge to the group, and then once in a while, they'll mention a new product or promotion or something. Is it tolerated? Hell, it's welcomed. They contribute to the group with their knowledge, and many of the guys have their products. They've earned the respect and they don't abuse it.

Not much thinking is needed to see how that situation differs from this one, where some randome salesman wanders into the party and starts handing out business cards. Especially, as you say, while insulting our intelligence at the same time.

Reply to
Dave Hinz

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"Offers to sell your whiskies to the members of the newsgroup or notices of whiskies you have for sale are not encouraged"

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This was *MY* conclusion based on reading the first 5 years or so of posts, not the text of the founding documents themselves, as I tried to make clear. And I chose my language carefully. Sometimes, often even, offers to sell a whisky were ignored; sometimes they were criticized. But there were never any posts saying something like, "Thanks for that I've been looking for that whisky"; hence they were never "encouraged".

The actual language of the charter forbids "commercial discussions". It's a bit ambiguous, and I don't want to act as a mind reader but I suspect what the founders had in mind was advertising by whisky shops rather than individuals selling a bottle. But a lot of individual hawking their collections would make for a pretty boring newsgroup.

If you're sincere (and I'll take it you are for now) just post about what you like and what you don't like, your impressions or tasting notes of whiskies you've enjoyed, what the whisky scene is like in your part of the world, your opinion on questions the others ask, etc... Even the curmudgeons will forgive a faux pas eventually; I've made a few myself.

And if you really are a spammer, well, then to hell with ya.

It's a thought. I've been reluctant to repost my research because many of the old posters are no longer active, old email addresses are dead, and it's impossible to get permission from all the original posters I've quoted. No one has objected (so far) but presumably many don't know their old opinions are being resurrected. Not to mention it's work and time which I'd rather spend on tasting the next whisky and making new discoveries...

Bart

Reply to
Bart

My only issue is - If the guy is immediately attacked, he's not likely to stick around and contribute. I'd rather have more people around to discuss whisky than less.

Reply to
SleepyWeevil

And that, of course, includes you, Dave (H).

Reply to
SleepyWeevil

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