2010 CdP Gran Tinel

CdP can be tricky, because it has (broadly speaking) 3 stages of life. Cornas can be like this too, sometimes.

- for a few years in youth, it's vibrant fruit and tannin driven, delicious but without notable complexity.

- in middle years, they very often "go to sleep". The fruit and tannins are somewhat muted and the wine may lack interest, leading people to think it is past its peak.

- when the wine wakes up, tannins are present but mature (French say mur or "ripe") and there are further levels of complexity, yes tar, licorice, leather, but also chocolate, stone, slight bitterness of fruit pits, herbs, etc. In good vintages these develop for many years...

Now, Grand Tinel's domaine CdP is not the most complicated CdP on the planet, but I suspect yours was still in stage 2, and the air helped it wake up a little.

We used to have a sort of troll here who argued vociferously and ad nauseum that breathing was always bad for wine, I wonder what he would make of your note! :)

-E

Sounds like Barolo,which is why I've always had a hard time with those two types of wine. I dont have access to very mature wines (like those Dale rev iews form the 70s and 80s), not even 90s are easy to find, except with some Spanish wines. So I try to find those that has some more age than the typi cal newest release vintage (which usually ends up in the 4-8y range here), which doesnt seem to be enough for some types. Sometimes I open it the day before for it to open. I found this helps with e.g. Quantum.

I find it is almost always a beneficial practice :)

Oh, about the Tinel 2nd day. I got home late from work, so it only had 1h i n decanter (from the vacuvin'ed bottle) while I cooked, and it was back to licorice state. My wife commented it was a good wine, but when I told the p rice was the same as Beringer Knights Valley, she said I should have bought that instead.

I think Dale is well aware of that issue. From my recent observations, CdP seems to be made differently from the past. Maybe it is crop related as all of France has had some horrible weather related failures in the last 4 yea rs but I am definitely seeing a difference both in Northern and Southern Rh one. And Rhone wines are pretty much all of the French wine I am drinking n ow as both Bordeaux and Burgundy have been priced out of the market.

Hi Larry,

No doubt, the post was intended for Michael. Actually, I wouldn't presume to tell Dale anything about wine, at all! ;)

I don't think most of the folks in the Rhone have changed their techniques. Everyone wants to try new wood, since that's what the American market wants. But most stick with a more traditional bottle, also. As you say, the weather of the last few years has been difficult.

-E

Larry, I find your comments curious. First of all, I find myself increasingly priced out of the Rhone, with N. Rhone Syrahs going stratospheric and CdP going N of $50. Bordeaux prices are insane for the classed growths, but it's such a big region that reasonably priced "lesser" wines can still be found. Curiously, I find Bugundy to offer some of the most reasonable wines, with lots of wine in the $20-$40 range (less than many domestic Pinot Noirs of similar quality).

Mark Lipton

Im curious about this. I thought Burgundy was the most expensive region in the world, because it is the region all the millioniares stock up on. Can y ou list some examples, so I can check on availability in Denmark. The longe r the list, the higher probability there is of me finding one .

Look for Domaine Arlaud "Roncevie"! It's classed as a Bourgogne but the climat is sandwiched between Gevrey-Chambertin commune appellation climats. It's a bargain! Graham

Some of my favorite value producers:

Pavelot Savigny-les-Beaune 1ers Chandon de Briailles Savigny and Pernand-Vergelesses Michel Gaunoux Beaune Denis Bachelet Bourgogne Robert Chevillon Nuits-St-George Vieilles Vignes Drouhin Chorey-les-Beaune

These are "traditionalist" producers who use little new oak and who don't try to overextract or over-chaptalize their wines. They are available here in the US for $25-40 per bottle, depending on producer, vintage and retailer. From what I know of your tastes, Michael, I am not sure that you wouldn't find them "thin" and uninteresting.

Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton wrote in news:mcg21k$bif$1 @speranza.aioe.org:

Yes, I think Michael should do Meo Camuzet Bourgogne Hautes-Cotes de Nuits, or some producer from Nuits-St.Georges more than Chambolle.

something like this?

Browsed some more and thought about how the premise was that burgundy is ch eaper than "domestic" (assuming USA) and Bourdeaux, but the wines Im findin g are mostly 100-200euro here, while I can find an excellent pinot noir for 30Euro from California caleld "Forefront", that everyone at my last tastin g was agreeing was very very good. And I can find a better one at 45E thats even better from Marimar.

The Drouhin is available in the wine store Im a member of the club of. Some notes claim it is a bit oaky and more concentrated than expected, so it mi ght be a good start for me?

It costs 32$, which is in the range I am not so likely to "just get it for the sake of it" like I did with the Morgon that costs half as much. But I c an keep an eye for sales, or get it for the next tasting, where there's oth ers that might enjoy it, even if I dont. My wife is even more anti-light-bo dy-fresh-acid-french wine than I am. Hmm its on the list of "best burgundy under 60$":

There's two Drouhins on it, and the one you mention sounds better than the other, even though the reviewer liked the other one better.

I guess that might be the problem for Michael in these appellations.

We like Dom. Arnoux et fils, also in Chorey, but the wines are pretty fresh.

Michael Nielsen wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Seems like a basic Bourgogne from a good vintage. Probably a good wine but such are the prices of Bourgogne nowadays.