Viognier

Viognier?

Think Condrieu.

Some excellent examples from Australia and New Zealand - probably not in your neck of the woods.

st.helier

I had a 5E Trivento viognier Argentina for cooking and had a glass to taste what it is. No prior experience with viognier.

Was surprised to find that it reminds me of the nice fat body of a chardonnay. So maybe I should look into some higher quality viognier this summer.

What do you think? Am I right that it is somehow related to chardonnay? do they make nice reserves with some oak aging for "white red-like wines" like chardonnay?

"Often the wine is full bodied and rich in a style that is texturally similarly to Chardonnay."

So its not just me :)

But gentically it is related, according to ”Wine Grapes,• quite closely and not surprisingly when one thinks Condrieu. to Syrah, as well as to Mondeuse Blanche and, remotely through another variety, to Nebbiolo. There are some good ones at good value in the Ardeche as well.

Tim Hartley

Surprised about the parallel with chardonnay, I do not see it.

For top quality wine, the grape is very picky about where it grows. In my experience, light and elegant with fine apricot citrusy aroma around Condrieu, heavy sickly syrupy anywhere else in Europe. Maybe in other continents?

Definitely appeals to the ladies. (not a sexist remark, just an observation)

Mike Tommasi wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Neither do I.

I normally find it cloying and too thick, without enough acidity. I normally get bored with the second sip.

But I never had a White Rhone that I really liked (including Rayas white).

Cloying and thick without acidity sounds wonderful. too bad the only condrieu I can find here is 70E. Not gonna try that. Id rather just get a trusty napa chard at 40E.

De gustibus non est disputandum !!!

yes one has the right to like unbalanced wines ;-)

White Rhone? St Joseph white can be great. Chateauneuf white from Domaine d e la Janasse is very good. Lirac white frim Dom. de la Mordorée. But yes they are exceptions.

Had it once... I liked it and was very happy to have put it in a taste with friends. But I did not purchase more to drink or lay down for some time.

I've not had much reason to say "Viognier" but it occurred to me find its pronunciation today. From the web I find it's "vee ànn yáy", which is easier than some of my attempts. I suppose "ànn" represents a French nasal "O".

Well, Im not into whites because of their lack of body and their high acid. So finding a type of white that has body and not acidic can only be a plus over the usual alternative :)

Michael, when I said De gustibus... I really meant it!

No need to explain your preferences. I happen to like wines with acidity, including whites and reds.

Let me suggest you try Rafa Palacios As Sortes 2010, 2011, or 2012 from D.O. Valdeorras in Galice. Godello (the grape it is made from) is not very acid and Rafa works very well with oak so the wine is full and rounded without being cloying. It drinks so well at age 2 or 3.

It is not inexpensive, at around 30 euro retail in Spain. He makes a second wine called Louro which is also nice, but a step down in all magnitudes (intensity, volume, etc). And beware that 2013 was a very difficult year in the area.

It's the short "O" sound not Viownyay or Vyownyay. It seems to be an ignorant, middle class affectation to lengthen vowel sounds. Risotto becomes "rizoatoh" and I don't know where Coasta Rica is:-)

I was avoiding ASCII IPA and thus "O" just represents the letter "o" but it would be short like you say.

Its available in Aalborg (the town I am from), so I might try it some day w hen I visit my family.

I looked around for viognier where I live. And it is very rare.

I came across this one:

Laurent Miquel - Vérité Viognier

look interesting. Might use it next weekend when I have guests.

Note from CT:

"Part fermented and matured in oak, this has a very interesting nose: note the simple Languedoc viognier you might expect, and feeling more Condrieu-l ike, with some smokiness behind the viognier fruit. Very elegant and silky on the palate. Carries the oak very well. Pretty impressive."

e the simple Languedoc viognier you might expect, and feeling more Condrieu

-like, with some smokiness behind the viognier fruit. Very elegant and silk y on the palate. Carries the oak very well. Pretty impressive."

Michael

when you say you don't like whites because of "lack of body and their high acid", I am not sure if you are trolling ;-)

Anyhow, like I said, outside of Condrieu, Viognier will tend to be heavy, a nd by that I do not mean it would have body, because viognier does not have much body, it is all about airy fine aromatics on a not so acid base.

If you want whites with body, you must look in Burgundy.

h acid", I am not sure if you are trolling ;-)

Well if you look at my win enotes from tastings that have whites in them, y ou will find that I mean it. Tastings with a high presence of whites tend t o get a lot of 1 stars.

and by that I do not mean it would have body, because viognier does not ha ve much body, it is all about airy fine aromatics on a not so acid base.

Confused. I had a lot of Chablis, since it is chardonnay and I tend to like that ( from a california/aussie standpoint). and I find them lacking and n ot earning their name "chardonnay" and much less their price, while a 50$ N apa Chard very much earns its price.

For the party on friday I am considering that Verite viognier , or Pine Rid ge Dijon Clone Chardonnay or Beringer Luminus Oak Knoll chard. I am thinkin g it could be a good day to test the viognier, because if I dont like it, o thers might. I also havent tried the two chards, but it is more likely I wi ll like them, but then ofc. they cost twice as much. The same as the Ramey, which gets a better review on CT.

ke that ( from a california/aussie standpoint). and I find them lacking and not earning their name "chardonnay" and much less their price, while a 50$ Napa Chard very much earns its price.

You are tasting the wrong ones. No Cal chard comes close to a good Chablis. BTW, they will tend to have a pronounced acidity (among other things), so given your tastes, for Burgundy I would stick to more southern ones from th e Côte de Beaune or around Macon.

idge Dijon Clone Chardonnay or Beringer Luminus Oak Knoll chard. I am think ing it could be a good day to test the viognier, because if I dont like it, others might. I also havent tried the two chards, but it is more likely I will like them, but then ofc. they cost twice as much. The same as the Rame y, which gets a better review on CT.

Just be aware that any oak will almost certainly ruin a viognier. Except fo r sweet ones from air dried grapes, maybe.