a hydrometer is not necessary?

is this from a kit, or fresh fruit/grapes ?

according to previous assumption, then there are ranges acceptable for starting gravities. also, acid contnet is a desired factor.

depending upon the initial gravity, yeast style, temperature conditions during fermentation, this could take years, though may turn out to be the best you have ever sampled.

refer above. if any of these changes are able to enable a renewed fermentation after bottling, then i would say no. would you prefer to have a cellar of possible exploding bottles?

you decide whether a $5 dollar investment is worth the time and money expended. cheers

tks scott

lets assume fruit, with the acid balanced out(I might need to re-read the directions on this)

that would be a lot of refilling of the airlock :) assume a fairly warm environment, good yeast, to speed this up from years to months.

I was going to make a post about that, since it seems to be one of the failures that i'd like to avoid. are we sure the hydrometer will stop it from happening?

the $5 isnt the issue, as the hydrometer came with the kit. I am trying to get the theory down straight as to what is happening, what tools are needed, what tools are helpfull, and what tools avoid certain problems.

also, as per the other post, what tools can be skipped while waiting for your replacement hydrometer to show up from mail order

I think the bare minimum you can hope to get away with are:

reasonable sanitation a primary fermenter a secondary fermenter and airlock a hydrometer decent ingredients

My belief is that you can do without any of these core items, but you'd be getting away with it when it's good and failing to reach the standard the rest of the time. There's no point taking extra chances when it is so easy to make a basic measurement and be confident that you are likely to end up with a fair wine each time.

Jim

getting away with it when it's good and

extra chances when it is so easy to make a

wine each time.

yeah, thanks jim. the winemaking kit i got has ALL this STUFF and i'm trying to sort it out, both from a functional level and a skill level. I'll admit that from the instructions, it seems that every step start with "check your wine with a hydrometer" then goes onto with some unrelated process.

getting away with it when it's good and

extra chances when it is so easy to make a

wine each time.

Checking something for no reason is idiotic, agreed. Those are just bad instructions though.

Making wine from fruit without a hydrometer may be difficult, especially if you want to make something similar from year to year. All you will have to gauge things by is memory and initial taste. If you were making wine from grapes or especially kits or corrected juice, you may not need one if you have a sensitive palate and train it on what you like and dislike at different stages of winemaking. Sugar and acids in any fruit are dependant on a wide variety of factors. On the other hand, grapes that taste good for the most part have enough sugar and low enough acid to make drinkable wines.

Most fruit wines are made a little sweet to begin with but the alcohol level is on the low side; 10% is generally accepted as the minimum alcohol level for a wine to keep. If you are making a gallon or so at a time and drinking it within months none of this matters, just keep good notes. Over 10% in a fruit wine usually starts to mask the fruit flavors.

I for one think the hydrometer is the most valuable tool you have besides your senses; it can provide a reality check of your senses which are also affected by a wide variety of factors. Fruit wines in general require more skill than grape wine as I see it. Making a balanced wine from fruit requires insight; making it hit or miss from grapes is a whole lot easier.

The hydrometer give you a rough idea of the mount of sugar in the juice; that is valuable. Something with lower sugar and lower acid can taste similar to something with higher sugar and higher acid. On the converse, you can have something that tastes very sweet because the acid is low. The hydrometer helps you sort that out. Most wine start out at around 20% sugar and less that 1% acids; that smaller amount of acid affects the taste quite a bit.

I have never seen a cork-able bottle explode and I have made thousands of bottles of wine; usually you have the cork come out first. Then again, I use a lot of test equipment, I like that aspect of winemaking.

Joe

I know what you mean,

I never use a hydrometer as I never could get repeatable readings that were what I felt accurate.

If I am making from scratch from fruit, I research a few recipes can get an idea of amt. of sugar for a batch, For whine I use the 5 gal. pails of fresh juice that I get from Stupor-Store as I feel (for no scientifically proven reason) that concentrating must take something away from full volume fresh.

I use the sight method for whine, beer and mead, when it is crystal clear and the air lock is flat then I rack one last time and bulk age for at least 3+ months.

I feel the trick for very succdessful brewing is get far enough ahead of yourself that the product you are presently making wouldn't be needed for a extended period of time. After years and tears, I have come to the conclusion that time is most important as far as quality results are concerned, with a decent recipe of course.

I would like to try an alcohol refractometer to see what the finish actual alc. content is, but hey It's the drinking not the making for me.

Thousands will disagree lol

cheers

Without a hydrometer you have no sure way of determining if the wine is done fermenting. Keeping it in the secondary fermenter long after you *think* it's done fermenting works *most* of the time ... :-)

Using a hydrometer works 100% of the time. It eliminates guessing.

I don't always get a clear reading from the hydrometer, especially in the early stages with chunks of fruit floating around in a carbonated slurry. But when it reads 0.996 or less I know fermentation is done. Rebottling 200 bottles 'cuz it started fermenting again 4 months later cured me of not checking! ROFL!

My $0.02 ...

Bryan

What is that? Refractometers are for unfermented products and cost 10 times what a hydrometer costs. Do you mean a vinometer? They work pretty well on dry wine.

Joe

When you want the most alcohol you can get, the hydrometer is not really necesary. Your just need to feet the yeast as long as it will eat and that is the most you can get.

When you want to make a good wine rather than a pain killer, that is when you need a hydromert. I will admit that if you are making a kit, the instructions often have you playing with your hydrometer much more than you need to.

Here is the proceedure I use:

I use the hydrometer at the start to set the right sugar content to get aproximately the alcohol level I want. Usually between 11 and 12.5%.

Then when the fermentation slows down, I check the hydrometer reading before moving it from primary to secondary. If it is down below 1.010 and fermentation is slow, everything is going fine and I rack it. If the fermentation is slow and the SG is high then I start wondering what is wrong and start watching for a stuck ferment.

Then after fermentation stops and it has set in the secondary for a week or two with no activity, I use the hydrometer to make sure fermentation has really finished properly (not a stuck ferment) and I rack it off the leas.

Now there may be a few other times I might use a hydrometer, mostly out of curiosity, like if I am adjusting the sweetness (which is really done by taste) but the above is the primary use I make of a hydrometer. I consider it essential to get my wine right. But you may develope a proceedure where by you avoid it's use. It is up to you.

Ray

Ray, Do you primary ferment in a pail? I never understood the rack at

1.010 thing unless it's to get the wine away from air; if you are already in a carboy it seems like a step you don't need. Do you stir up the lees or just rack and leave the gross lees back? Just curious, maybe this should be another thread.

Joe

I always do primary in a pail. I was taught that the yeast need the oxygen early on for reproduction and I have never had trouble with the meathodology so I continue to use it. Do I stir befor racking out of primary? Now there is a proceedure I have been rethinking. If I am fermenting on pulp, absolutely not. If it is just juice, in the past I didi not. But I have had a few batch's of juice stick after racking. Jack Keller suggested than this may be because I was not bringing over enough yeast. Lately I have been stirring a bit before racking or in some cases just moving everything to secondary and I have not had the problem.

Ray

My understanding is this practice came out from the kit world, the primary reason being to protect the wine from air exposure when it starts slowing down. I think there as a secondary reason - either to leave behind the bentonite that used to be added in the beginning of the ferment or to start the clarification process, or both. But the basic issue is as you said it - since the wine started from juice with no solids is fermenting in a pail, it needs to be racked into a carboy while the ferment is still vigorous. If you start in a carboy, there is no reason to rack at this stage.

I've also had 1-2 stuck fermentations doing it that way but usually when I left the racking step until later - around 1.000. If it's just juice, I don't see an issue with stirring the whole thing just before racking or alternatively pouring some part of the lees from the bottom of the pail into the carboy after the racking. With pulp it might be a different story but then at 1.010 there will still be a solid cap so racking is pretty much a non-issue at that stage.

Pp

If I am fermenting on pulp,

Sounds like we do pretty much the same thing. I do more juice than grapes so those always get stirred now for the same reason, I had a few stick.

Joe