batch size & shelf life??

I find 3 gallon size about right for experimental wines. Shelf live varies, but in general, I have found that for fruit wines 8 months is a good time to start drinking.

I would agree with Paul, I think its less trouble to do 3 gallon batches than anything smaller. It's about the same amount of work regardless of container, with 3 gallons you get 15 bottles of finished wine.

As to waste, it varies but 10 to 20% s a rule of thumb might make sense. There seems to be more relative waste the smaller the container.

Joe

Ditto what Joe said - and I would add; I find that batches of less than

5 gallons seem like more work for too little wine. 5 gallons gives me two cases plus a bottle. A nice return on the effort. Less just seems like a poor ROI on my time. These days, I will do an 'experimental wine' at 5 gallons. Anything I am serious about (grape wines) is about 20 gallons, so I can use the 15.5 gallon stainless vats plus a carboy. Fruit wines I shoot for 10 to 13 gallons (2 carboys).

My problem with small experiemental batchs is that they are gone by the time they are drinkable. If you get a full 2 gallons into secondary (no head), by the time it has gone through 3 rackings you will be lucky to get 7 bottles. Then you need to have a bottle shortly after bottling to see how it is going. Then a bottle every 6 weeks to 2 months. By the time it is a year old and just starting to be drinkable it will be almost all gone. It would be a good idea to get some split bottles to extend the testing time.

Longevity: Some wines are actually on decline by the time they are a year old. Others are starting to be drinkable at 3 years. You learn by asking and by doing. If I know a wine will be short lived I will make a 3 gallon batch. If longer lived I will make 6 to ... gallons at a time. My experience with apple is that it takes about 6 months to a year to be ready and is on decline in 2 or 3 years. But that may depend on how it was made. I like to make mine from whole fruit, fermented on the pulp. It can be very different if juice is used.

Ray

Hello everyone, Well, I'm going to sort of agree/disagree - lol, but I will say everyone has given you the pros of doing larger batches and a lot of good advice. I started with 1 gallon batches, and I have not gone to larger carboys. When you're first starting out and trying different kinds of wine, what happens if you don't like the wine you've made...well, then instead of 5 bottles to figure out what to do with, you have 10, 15, 20, 25. There are wines I won't make again after trying them two times - once just to try, the second to see if I can improve, and then if I still don't like them, I won't make them again. I always thought I'd go to a bigger carboy after a couple of years, but I never have. I'm still trying to get rid of some dandelion wine which no one liked. I gave my last bottle to a friend's husband - I told him better him than me to toss it if he doesn't like it. It took me a couple of years to build up my cellar, but I have not run out of wine yet making just 1 gallon batches. As to shelf life, that depends on the fruit, veggie, herb, and your taste buds. Follow the guidelines everyone has given you, write down how things taste when you try one of your wines, and work out what you like/or don't like. Darlene

"J Scott" wrote in message news:G76dnTEyPaOyF6PbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@centurytel.net...

I'll cast another vote for 3 gallons as a reasonable minimum batch size. The right answer is to some extent going to be an individual one, as it involves trading off time, money and effort. I suppose it also depends a bit on just how experimental you want to be. Personally, I find that much of the effort of winemaking relates to the batch, not the number of gallons, so three 1-gallon batches would be nearly three times the work of one 3-gallon batch. Also, since it can easily take 6 to 12 months or more before you can really tell if a given batch is successful, it makes more sense to me to make a bigger batch. If it is successful, you have at least a case or so to enjoy; with a smaller batch size, you need to start the production process over again and wait another 6 to 12 months or more. Yes, there is the risk of "waste" if/when you decide that a particular batch just didn't work out. But (at least for me) that is a pretty rare event, and the cost of the ingredients is a minor one compared to the investment of time and effort.

As for life expectancy, I'm not sure there is any real rule of thumb. I've been told that three things contribute to longevity in the bottle: alcohol, acidity and tannins. To the extent you have medium to high levels of all three, the wine (under good storage conditions) should last longer. In the case of fruit wines, they generally don't have tannins; the alcohol is likely to be normal or a bit on the low side, and the acidity normal to high. In most cases, I would expect fruit wines to be at their best within a year or two, and to start to decline somewhere between 3 and 5 years. Individual wines are bound to vary, however.

Doug