Best All Purpose Sanitizer

What does everyone here use for sanitizing? I've been using bleach and One Step cleanser. I've heard sulphites are best but I don't know where to buy them.

Thanks for any help :) e-spice

Reply to
e-spice
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Well, sulphites are NOT best. There are stronger/better sanitizers available. I believe that Iodophor is stronger, and it does not have the awful sulphurous smell.

Sodium metabisulphite is available at wine supple stores.

Steve

Reply to
Steve Waller

I have some Iodophor but I had heard it was better for beer making, not wine making.

-e

Reply to
e-spice

If it's good for beer making it is certainly good for winemaking.

My personal preference is a product called Star San from 5 Star Chemicals. It is an acid based sanitizer, easy to use, works quickly (2 min contact), does not need to be rinsed off or dried, stores well in solution in a covered container for months. I generally mix up a 5 gallon bucket's worth (1 oz of Star San) to have on hand for soaking. It foams like crazy but you don't need to worry about leaving the foam behind. It will not affect the taste, aroma or fermentation.

Here in Canada, it can be ordered from Paddock Wood

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I don't know who carries it in the States.

Brian

Reply to
Brian Lundeen

Personally, I'm a bleach fan, but it's hard to work with (eats your clothes or any other organic exposed to it)( oh, and hard to rinse). I was wondering about using oxyclean. Any one play with this?

Jim L.

Reply to
jim l

Then why are you a fan? The only good thing that can be said about bleach is, it's cheap. Iodophor and Star San (my personal choice) are both very effective sanitizers that are much less hassle to deal with.

OxyClean is a cleaner, not a sanitizer, and I'm told does a good job. For winemaking purposes, it is probably sufficient. Brewers should use an actual sanitizer.

Brian

Reply to
Brian Lundeen

Where is the "hassle" in using bleach? It's not that difficult to avoid splashing it on clothing and carpeting, and it does a good job --- inexpensively. It needs to be rinsed off well, but (IMO) so do the ones that _say_ they don't.

Why? If the equipment is washed and rinsed thoroughly, no bacteria should remain. I.e. there should be nothing to "sanitize". Properly used, soap and water is just as effective as the more expensive "anti-bacterial" "sanitizers".

Reply to
Negodki

I clean with soap and water and use an oxyclean-type product for tough jobs, and then sanitize with iodophor and occasionally bleach.

Soap and water only removes dirt and grime so sanitizers can get in to do their work. Soap will not kill all bacteria, germs, etc.

I keep seeing the rumor here that iodophor is ok for beer making but not wine, but no one seems to be able to back this up with any facts or references. Anyone?

Reply to
Miker

Ahh, a cynic. Well, believe what you want, many thousands of homebrewers who do not rinse off their no-rinse sanitizers with no ill effects will disagree with you.

As for bleach, the hassle comes from requiring longer contact times, and having to rinse well. Over the years I have heard more complaints of problems from improper use of bleach than any other sanitizer. Star San is effective, affordable, easy to use, and has no risk (if directions are followed) of adversely affecting the taste or aroma of the wine, or fermentation capabilities of the yeast. Just because something is good, doesn't mean that something else can't be better.

As I said, for winemaking purposes clean is sufficient. Sulfites in the wine, the lower pH and higher alcohol levels, all contribute to making it resistant to any bacteria that might remain. Move into the world of beer, you might find the results less desirable..

Brian

Reply to
Brian Lundeen

I don't understand how that could possibly be. It sanitizes better than a sulfite rinse, which is what many winemakers use. I've seen it argued the other way, that sulfites aren't a good enough sanitizer for use in brewing.

Brian

Reply to
Brian Lundeen

Miker wrote "I keep seeing the rumor here that iodophor is ok for beer making but not wine, but no one seems to be able to back this up with any facts or references. Anyone?"

There's nothing wrong with using iodophor to sanitize wine bottles. Use the proper dilution, drain well and all you have left is a few drops of dilute iodophor at most. In beer making (oops...almost used the brewing word...wouldn't want to confuse anyone) circles there have been plenty of experiments conducted to see if iodophor residue can be detected. The short answer is no.

Now, I've observed an interesting thing with iodophor. In the past I would sanitize beer bottles, empty and let the bottles drip dry overnight. The next evening the bottles were totally dry. I would prime and fill beer into these bottles. My usual routine is to drink a beer and immediately rinse the bottle so they don't build up residue and become hard to clean (same for wine bottles). I noticed a thin film on the bottle wall of iodophor sanitized bottles that had been dried overnight. This "problem" was traced back to the complete drying...a thin film of iodophor remained in these bottles. It's unsightly to pour a beer and have flakes of film end up in your otherwise perfect pilsner. So, now days, when I use iodophor, I treat the bottles, drain well and fill immediately with beer. That way any iodophor residue is dissolved in the beer and no film is attached to the bottle wall.

Sorry to bring up a beer subject but the I expect the same "problem" would develop if you happen to treat wine bottles with iodophor and let them totally dry before filling with wine.

Actually I don't sanitize wine bottles at all anymore. If you clean wine bottles well after use and store them inverted, the alcohol, low pH and sulfite is adequate to protect your wine.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

Reply to
William Frazier

Re: iodophor

Brian, I can't find the threads that brought this up, but I think some people were arguing that iodophor affects the flavor of wine (unlike beer) even in very low concentrations. No one seems to be able to back this up, however.

I'm like you, Bill. I clean both wine and beer bottles as soon as they're empty. I'm not so worried about sanitizing wine bottles for the reasons you mention, but I do run them through the dishwasher on the hot dry cycle before bottling just as I do with beer bottles. (By the way, I didn't know "beer" and "brew" were considered four letter words on this forum)

I use iodophor to sanitize carboys before use and for sanitizing racking canes, hoses and other stuff before and after racking, but to tell you the truth I always rinse them in hot water even though I know its not necessary. Maybe this defeats the purpose of this no-rinse sanitizer, but it seems to work for me.

Reply to
Miker

Ahh, a believer. There's more than one in every graveyard. If a product is called no-rinse and kills things, I'd rinse!

The beauty of chlorine is that it's actually recommended for sterilizing water in the backwoods. The same goes for iodine, so I'd trust products based on that as well.

Like a friend said, "I didn't get this cynical all by my myself".

Don S

Reply to
Don S

Don, that just shows your ignorance of the chemistry. No rinse sanitizers are designed to break down once there's little volume left. With Iodophor, I believe the Iodine combines and dissipates as a gas. I can't say how Star San works but it works on the same theory (becoming innocuous after the volume of solution has been removed).

Chlorine can cause some nasty off flavors with very low taste thresholds in brewing. I don't know if it takes the boiling temps of brewing to bring them out or if they will affect wines. I do know that you need higher concentrations, longer contact times and a complete dry or rinse to remove the chlorine. Iodophor and StarSan don't require a rinse.

-Danno

Reply to
danno

There is a significant difference between the "chemistry" claimed by the manufacturers of such products and reality. Chlorine bleach (actually sodium hypochlorite) is inexpensive, effective, and rinses out easily. Rinse water is cheap as well. If you are happy with "no-rinse" products, and are not bothered by the measurable residuals left by those products, fine. I'd rather rinse, and (since I'm rinsing anyway) use an inexpensive solution.

Reply to
Negodki

You're welcome to use whatever you want to use, as is Don. But for you and Don to say that their claim of being no-rinse means nothing, shows that you are offering opinions and nothing based on chemistry or facts. Thus, my comments remain valid. If you don't believe the manufacturers of the products, why do you believe the manufacturer of bleach? The fact is that these products are used by commercial food prep companies and thus, their products have to be approved by the government who, in turn, test it to make sure that it provides the sanitation levels necessary to meet their standards.

-Danno

Reply to
danno

Thank you.

It appears that you have not read all the available data on Idophor, but rather are offering _your_ opinion, perhaps based on your personal experience, perhaps based on the inaccurate claims of various vendors of these products. There _are_ residuals, even when solutions are made "to the correct strength". Excess ingested iodine _can_ cause health problems, even if the iodine cannot be tasted or smelled. When solutions are made stronger than "recommended", the residuals can easily be detected. Rinsing "no-rinse" products is good prudent practice. Even the manufacturers of the product recommend rinsing in the small-print of their product literature!

I don't necessarily believe the claims of the manufacturer (is there only one?) of bleach, nor the propoganda of its opponents, but rather the plethora of empirical data available on the subject. Idophor is "recommended" as a substitute for bleach in applications where corrosion is a concern, not because of its alleged "no-rinse" characteristics.

Chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is also used by "commercial food prep companies", and it is also "approved by the government" which "test[s] it to make sure that it provides the sanitation levels necessary to meet their [arbitrary] standards". Various governments are also continually revising their standards and test procedures, as well as their definition of what levels of contaminants are "acceptable". Individuals and companies may desire lower contamination levels than what current government standards deem acceptable, and fortunately there are usually no laws precluding this extra caution. The issue is not whether "no-rinse" sanitizers provide effective sanitation levels, but whether (without rinsing) they leave acceptable levels of residuals. There are many "commercial food prep companies" who do rinse after using "no-rinse" products, because of this concern.

Reply to
Negodki

What I said was definitely my opinion. I would rinse any no-rinse sanitizer. In my semi-old age (47) I've become very cynical about all chemicals and most companies.

I found a box of DDT that my father had left in a shed. The DDT was for use in gardens and the only warning on it was not to use it within 24 hours of eating the produce. Problems with chemicals are largely a known thing now but I wondered at that time what are we using now that we think is OK only because we haven't discovered some new link to cancer or whatever.

There's no need to get up in arms on this topic. If your paranoid - rinse - the water you rinse with has been tested.

Don

Reply to
Don S

Why is it then that resterants have a three compartment sink, one for washing, one for rinsing, and on for sanatizing? Right now i'm working in a kitchen, and we sanatize everything that we can. Some notes on different sanatizers, bleach works well, invest in a test strip and get it to about 50 ppm. At that concentration you don't need any protection from it. Hot water is another way to go, but this is also the most dangorus sanatizer. Our kitchen uses water that temps at about 180 F. One of the guys i work with got what looks like second degree burns from it.

What is important to keep in mind with sanatizers is two things, concentration, and contact time. If you are using sanatizers, know how strong they are, and make sure they have the right amount of contact time.

And as to soap, its only meant for cleaning, not sanatizing.

"Negodki" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

Reply to
quakeholio

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