Bottles

Bottle style has traditionally had less to do with color or varietal and more to do with regional ancestry; there are Bordeaux style bottles, Burgundy style bottles, a slightly smaller Burgundian style associated with Rhone wines, Champagne style, Alsatian, etc.

There is some argument that bottle color makes a difference relative to white vs red; my own opinion is that all bottles should be kept in a dark cellar and therefore color would make no difference - but I do prefer the look of white wines being served from green glass.

I simply collect a lot of bottles of all types. We have predominantly Burgundian style bottles, but a lot of Bordeaux as well.

Where bottle style has the most impact, for me, is in cellar planning. The Burgundy bottles are significantly larger diameter, and therefore impact cellar shelf planning.

Bob Becker wrote:

I support what Ric said above about the history, and styles. What I've learned from my year experience - collect what you can, clean them good, and eventually if you get enough - you can sort them out and use like bottles for bottling. So I sort out the clear Burgundy style for my whites or fruit wines. The Bordeaux for reds. Though Pinot Noir is often in Burgundy style, so I try to sort to that. I have 144 bottles filled and in storage awaiting "the right time" to begin drinking, 144 empties ready to be filled in July from my various carboys.

I sort and clean as I need, since storage of empties always get dust, or things (I found a 6 foot snake skin wrapped around my "empties" cases in the garage). Oh, and when I get a bottle empty, I soak off the label and run it neck down in the dishwasher prior to storage upside down in empty cases. Just the way I do it. I don't like to save bottles with wine drops hardening inside, makes it easier later. Then it's soak for a minute in a "no rinse" solution and 1 minute in clean cool water, hang to dry. then bottle.

hope that helped. I sure liked the funnel and guzzle comment. haha.

I find the "hose until your hosed" works also, just can't walk around as much. Can you picture a 6 gallon carboy on top the refrig with 3 hoses coming down -- suck till you drop. hahahahaha.

DAve p.s. for labels, I'd recommend Avery "removable" labels, they even give free software to design your own labels. Sure makes removal easy.

Bob Becker wrote:

Does anybody re-use and bottle in the new(er) screw cap bottles that have been prevalent in the market lately?

I'm thinking of using these (first batch of wine) instead of buying a corker.

Pros? Cons?

regarding the labels -

I tried the Avery labels last year, for the first time. The problem was when I came to drink those wines, and found that those labels do not come off too easy. Plus, they are relatively expensive.

I have gone back to simply printing labels on standard paper, and attaching with cheap Elmer's glue all (I put a sponge in a dish and soak it in the glue, then dab the labels on the sponge, and fix em to the bottles.

For me, easier, cheaper, and they come off easy.

Live long - and drink lots of good wine along the way

Ric

Dave Allis> I support what Ric said above about the history, and styles. What I've

I'm doing it but don't have many yet - 10-20. It's fine for a short time and you'll save on corks but I wouldn't trust the broken seal to hold for long-term storage - of course, the best way is to really test it.

Pp

*gasp* What about the romance, the passion, the tradition! A properly corked bottle of wine is a joy to behold. Can you imagine dining in a fine restaurant, and the wine seward walks up, unscrews the bottle top, lays it gently in front of you to be examined, and then pours a bit of wine to be tasted. Of course not! Get the corks. Get the corker. Report back here.

screwcaps are difficult for the home winemaker, but the data is compelling;

• Cork is getting more scarce, and expensive

• TCA contaminates upwards of 5% of corked wine. For the home wimemaker, these can be a lot worse - a bad "batch" of corks can ruin a whole vintage

I'm still using corks, but looking seriously at synthetics for my white wine.

Bob Becker wrote:

My wife and I recently went to Italy and somehow the subject of corks came up because in Italian they're Quercus or something along those lines.. She commented that corks come from oak trees and that the Latin name "Quercus" is where we get the word "cork". I laughed, I ridiculed, I poo-pooed the whole idea. Darned if she isn't right. There's a 'cork oak', and that is indeed where we get corks and the work cork. I married a smart woman.

But you raise the subject of synthetic corks. It doesn't really seem like a bad idea if real corks can introduce a contaminant. Why only for white wine?

I love the romance of corks and the love affair ends right about there... :)

As to corks if you use them buy good ones. If it feels hard like wood, buy something else, it's not a good cork. It should give with a little pressure. If I make a really heavy red I will use corks. I have some

98 Chancellors under good corks and they are just coming around now. I might be nervous about using a synthetic there, the unknowns can be a bad thing. Most synthetic manufacturers say they are good for a few years. Very good corks are good for 20.

I have been using synthetics for a while. I like Nomacorc, I have some reds from 2002 under them that are doing just fine. I think Guardian is OK too but it's stiffer and just feels loose, especially in a burgundy bottle. I quit using Supremecorq because I did note a significant drop in sulfite levels with it.

I would not reuse screw caps, I would try to find new ones. There are American threads and European, most I see are European and I can't find a new screw-cap with those threads.

Joe

To your question - only whites because I don't have plans to age them. I grow and make Marsanne, no oak, more 'fruit forward' than, say, the Hermitage style. Bottom line - a style intended to be quaffed young, not aged. So I have no concerns over the aging characteristics of synthetics.

On the other hand, I grow and bottle Syrah and Cabernet Sauvignon - intended for aging For now, am staying with cork. As Joe suggests, there may be some limitations on aging with synthetics. Truth is, I am not up on the research or the results. But the trend is undeniable - cork is giving way to synthetics.

Your wife is quite right - oak is genus Quercus. Only a few species are used for oak aging, and only one - Quercus suber - is used to make cork. Read Joe's post carefully; choosing quality corks is important. Find a well respected supplier if at all possible, and talk to them about buying the highest quality possible. It's worth the extra $. And consider synthetics - especially if you are making wine intended to drink in the next few years.

Cheers,

Ric

Bob Becker wrote:

The pronounced shoulder "Bordeaux" bottle was originally for trapping the sediment while decanting the wine from the bottle. Now that we cold stabilize our wines, it's kinda moot point. Tradition lives on.

BTW, Pinot Noir, a red, is bottled in the sloping shoulder "Burgundy" bottle, and Sauvignon Blanc, a white, is bottled in the Bordeaux bottle.

Gene

Bob Becker wrote:

Great site! Thanks for the link. I bookmarked it.

For what it's worth, I've got a few glass 1 qt Coke bottles with screw caps that I have reused several times for fruit wines. First was blackberry, then wild cherry and now elderberry and none have failed yet. If you remember when they stopped putting Coke in glass you know how old they are.

Since the fruit was free, I wasn't too worried about loss and was curious.

Dick

See my earlier posts about getting Nomacorcs to work with brass jawed corkers.

We had a bottle of La Crema the other day- I wanted to compare it to my style. Said purchased bottle was corked. Therefore, my 'fresh' wine won the side by side competition.

I'd like to use screwcaps but:

1) can't get the bottles out of dumpsters easily (thin necks chip), 2) Can't get the bottom half of the screwpart off easily- I've seen some that are nearly 2" long. 3) Not enough restaurants using screwcaps- therefore not enough bottles for free.

Jas> >

Again, the inheritance of place, rather than color. The really interesting decisions, if you're trying to emulate tradition, are the blends that cross the traditional regions.

For instance; what should a Cabernet Sauvignon / Syrah blend be bottled in? Or, a Viognier / Sauvignon Blanc?

Not that it matters, but it's easy to amuse oneself with such wonderings while the grapes are still on the vine, and last years' reds still sit on the oak.

Cheers,

Ric

gene wrote:

Tis an easy response... majority rules. Somebody's got a way too comfortable armchair, lol.

Gene

Ric wrote: