Carbonation

I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather than there!

Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having a pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.

Thanks, Jim

Reply to
jim
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Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?

It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is quite another.

Get busy with the fizzy!

I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun intended ;)

Sean

ask an obvious question here rather than

not, is it because the flavour is

and expense than it is worth having a

bottling pre-dry.

Reply to
snpm

Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had trying to make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to teach me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.

I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer for example?

Jim

ask an obvious question here rather than

not, is it because the flavour is

and expense than it is worth having a

bottling pre-dry.

Reply to
jim

remember the spectacular blast I had trying to

saw what I was doing and decided to teach

solution properly.

beverages and not just water, like beer for

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

ask an obvious question here rather than

If not, is it because the flavour is

and expense than it is worth having a

bottling pre-dry.

never personally heard of force carbonating beer. Try the beery group. They would be a better crowd to ask I guess

Reply to
snpm

Ah they wouldn't know about what the story is on carbonating wine though ;)

remember the spectacular blast I had trying

it saw what I was doing and decided to

solution properly.

beverages and not just water, like beer for

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I ask an obvious question here rather

If not, is it because the flavour is

hassle and expense than it is worth having a

bottling pre-dry.

Reply to
jim

I had a hunt around and eventually found an answer. Aparrently force-carbonation of wine isn't particularly rare in commercial wine production. The bubbles are said to be inferior to those in sparkling wines which have been produced using the champenoise method and similar...

I also found some mention of force sparkling meads...

It took a while to get there, but it was quite interesting reading..

Jim

remember the spectacular blast I had

it saw what I was doing and decided to

the solution properly.

beverages and not just water, like beer for

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I ask an obvious question here rather

If not, is it because the flavour is

hassle and expense than it is worth having a

or bottling pre-dry.

Reply to
jim

remember the spectacular blast I had trying to

it saw what I was doing and decided to teach

the solution properly.

beverages and not just water, like beer for

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I ask an obvious question here rather than

If not, is it because the flavour is

hassle and expense than it is worth having a

or bottling pre-dry.

We've done both.

My wife makes beer; I make the wine. We carbonated beer by placing the corny keg outside (winter) and pumping it up to 30 PSI with CO2. I'd then rock the keg, shaking it- you could feel the gas going in and hear the whine.

We'd let it sit for an hour or so, then repeat. When It wouldn't hiss much when pressurizing, the keg was carbonated. 30PSI is a bit much, so I'd bleed off the head and let it sit.

Same principle with wine- purge, add wine, carbonate.

Reply to
purduephotog

Thanks for that, useful to know! I suppose from most points of view it is only what yeast is doing for you under pressure in the bottle so it sounded a like a good bet... I wonder what the difference in 'quality of bubble' that some mention when commenting on differences between 'natural' and 'forced' carbonation. Pressumably ever bubble has passed its 'fizzical'. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Cheers, Jim

remember the spectacular blast I had

it saw what I was doing and decided to

the solution properly.

beverages and not just water, like beer for

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

so I ask an obvious question here rather

drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is

hassle and expense than it is worth having

or bottling pre-dry.

Reply to
jim

Here's an article that talks about bubble size

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and this article has link to journal article

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So bubbles on steroids is not a good thing? Hmmmmm

Gene

jim wrote:

only what yeast is doing for you under

difference in 'quality of bubble' that some

carbonation. Pressumably ever bubble has passed

remember the spectacular blast I had

it saw what I was doing and decided to

the solution properly.

beverages and not just water, like beer for

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I ask an obvious question here rather

If not, is it because the flavour is

hassle and expense than it is worth having

or bottling pre-dry.

Reply to
gene

Thanks for those links Gene, interesting reading indeed.

So it seems bubble size is important and the smaller the bubbles the better, that makes sense surface with the greater bubble area/volume ratio providing more flavour (and more rapid alcohol take up in the gut no doubt).

It's interesting - if unsurprising - that it is the wine composition that decides the bubble size. If there is a difference in flavour between natural and forced carbonation, pure CO2 added into a wine might change the flavour of a wine differently to that naturally produced by pressurised fermentation. Perhaps it is down to chemicals produced by yeast under pressure?

Food for thought all the same, cheers!

Jim

only what yeast is doing for you under

difference in 'quality of bubble' that

carbonation. Pressumably ever bubble has

remember the spectacular blast I had

when it saw what I was doing and decided to

the solution properly.

beverages and not just water, like beer

messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

so I ask an obvious question here rather

drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is

hassle and expense than it is worth having

or bottling pre-dry.

Reply to
jim

Certainly. Your problem with milk might have been too much pressure, not letting it sit long enough, or your dispensing tubing length. Also, milk is high in protein, which is what allows bubbles to form... so it just may be too "foamy" for pressure...

As one poster said, you can force carb beer by using extra high pressure (40#) and shaking, then reducing the pressure to serve. Also you can just let it sit under low pressure (10#) for a couple weeks for the same result.

I'm going to read the articles about bubble size, but the beer homebrewing groups tend to believe that CO2 is CO2 and that any difference in bubble size is due to other factors ... carbonation level, time, etc. (natural carbonation takes longer). I'm curious what those articles say...

Derric

Reply to
Derric

Carbonation levels in beer are much lower than sparkling wine but the 'medium' is probably a lot more viscous among other things. I make beer too, but I carbonate naturally. I don't make enough to feel a need to buy a kegging system . Yet.

I read both of these articles and while I followed the logic I'm not sure they gave enough info to make a conclusion. They compared champagne to inexpensive sparkling wine and said they were different as to bubble formation even though they had similar CO2 diffusion which I'm sure is true. If the point is that pressure is only one factor, I guess I agree. If they would have said they were both wines of similar alcohol, acidity, residual alcohol and similar aging on similar yeasts I would have found it more useful though. (To be fair, they said 'inexpensive' and that implies the non-champagne was not aged on the yeast the same amount of time as the champagne.)

I make sparkling wines but I age them for several years in the bottle on the yeast. The bubbles are tiny. I make it from Seyval, which would horrify someone from Champagne if we were to compare. In other words, I hear what they are saying but am having a hard time accepting it at face value. The Seyval is not a noble grape but makes a very good sparkling wine and the bubbles are tiny. I have never bought a $150 bottle of champagne but I doubt those bubbles are smaller than mine are. I would suspect time on the yeast has a lot to do with this if I had to guess and I did it without resorting to spectrum analysis; I read a book... Sometimes you can get too caught up in the science; I liked the comment in the second article about science and art.

Joe

Reply to
Joe Sallustio

Thanks for the comment Joe, its all really interesting to me :)

Jim

Reply to
jim

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