Measuring only pH and Letting TA Take Care of Itself

Tom makes wine from high quality California grapes, which tend to have good to low TA. My guess is that he has the same philosophy as I do: you can taste the TA if it's out of whack... no need to test it.

I titrate TA's at harvest to provide a base language (a number everyone understands, not just "hey, that's tart!") to converse with my growers. From then on it's basically a taste test.

ph is montiored closely at our place as it has such an integral effect on wine quality.

Yes, if you adjust one the other changes, but that doesn't mean you don't ever need to adjust the TA.

Typically, I adjust pH up front, before fermentation, and then if needed, the TA gets adjusted just prior to bottling, when you know it's stabilized. Note that in our part of the world, we rarely (read "never" in my case) raise the TA on a dry wine.

This is true, and only experience can help. Practice, practice, practice. Until you're comfortable with your palate, it's good idea to titrate along with the tasting.

The TA you're experiencing is why that style of wine often has some level of sugar to balance the acid. Even if you *think* you don't like that much sugar in a wine, you'd be suprised at how nice the wine can be if simply balanced properly. Put your mind aside when you sit down to finish the wine. Let the palate dictate the outcome.

clyde

This is sage advice worthy of repeating. I am slowly learning to do this.

Glen Duff wrote "here is a repeat of my original query. I realize the importance of pH to the stability of the wine, particularly SO2 requirements but don't understand why you don't monitor TA as well. Everything I've read suggests that TA determines the acidity taste by 10 to 1 over pH." For example, I now have a Riesling-Geisenheim blend that is almost fermented out and has a pH of 3.29 and a TA of 11.2 g/l which I think is too high so I'm inclined to lower the TA to at least 9.0 keeping in mind that I am making an off-dry wine.

Glen - I agree that your 11.2 grams/liter is too high. Even if you add enough sugar to make the wine drinkable you will still burn a hole in your stomach after a glass or two. I've always been curious about what makes good wine. So, when I've purchased commercial wine I've set aside a small glass for testing. I've only run into two wines with TAs above 9 grams/liter...my notes say both were VERY acidic and too acidic to enjoy. Most white wines I've tested have TAs in the 6 to high 7 grams/liter.

I agree with you that lowering the 11.2 grams/liter is in order. What was the TA before fermentation? I ask because a kit I made had a nice TA before fermentation only to have the TA be much higher after the wine had fermented dry. This happened on some Santa Clara juice I fermented also.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

Isn't it odd that we tend to abandon our own senses and trust titrations and meters to tell us when a wine _should_ be good? I had to come full circle on this too. In the end, it comes down to a variation on "measure twice, cut once".

Tom S

Glen I work with similar acidic grapes and still measure TA. If anything, I go to the other extreme, at times I sacrifice higher pH (>3.6) in favor of lower acid. I have never been able to make a dry white wine with a TA above 6.5 that was not too tart. I really try to get the acid below 8.g/l, even if sweetening. Even though it seems balanced initially, I notice the acid shine through on anything I sweeten that has a TA above 8 g/l if you try another glass. It just seem to overpower the fruit and any sweetness.

I agree taste is everything and maybe someday my palate will be as good a guide as the instruments. I use the equipment to get me close. I also keep notes, so have a good idea of what I usually like though.

The danger in using numbers only came to the fore a few years back on my Chenin Blancs. On paper, they were right where I wanted them. I'm sure they were grossly overcropped now, since they taste more like acidic water after a few years. Chenin in past years with those numbers never came out like that, I really liked them. Technically they are sound but practically they are very dull. They are nice as blending wines, since they are pretty neutral.

My equipment never gets tired either, but I do... If the TA and my palate are in disagreement, I stop and test another time or another day now. Patience is not my strong suite,so I have to really force myself to take my time.

TA is pretty easy to measure, so I really see no reason to take a reality check out of the equation just yet.

Regards, Joe

That works for me.

That sounds pretty tart, but it might be OK for an off-dry wine - especially if you want to cellar it for a long time. I've seen TAs that high on some of the Chateau St Jean whites. The pH is within the normal range for that type of wine, so I'd tend not to diddle it unless it really seemed too acidic on the palate. Does it? Degas a sample with a Vac-U-Vin, taste it and let us know.

Tom S

Glen - One more question. Did you cold condition this wine? If so did the TA fall? If not you might want to run a couple of samples before you treat the wine chemically. I put samples in the frig and freezer. Then thaw the frozen sample and test both cold conditioned samples against the bulk wine. You can drop a lot a acid out of a wine by freezing.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas