Specific gravity- timing racking

Greetings all;

Brand new to this NG and hobby. Everyone seems civilized here, (unlike some other NG's I follow) so hope you don't mind helping a new guy with a question thta has most likely been posted a zillion times prior, and google isn't real specific for helping.

My wife started some home pressed apple cider with a montrachet yeast and is about ready to move to the secondary fermenter (glass jug). The book she has says when the specific gravity reaches 1.04 it's time to rack. It did yesterday and was even at 1.035 last evening. She stirred it before testing, so told her to let it settle until this morning and we'd do it then. She didn't want to diddle until tonight, so reckon it will be down a bit more.

I realize newbies get hung up on numbers, and the feeling of "oh-oh" sets in when you've overshot a bit, but if like most other things it's only a target, with a bit either side not being super critical. Help us through this phase.

My question (sorry about the verboseness) is: with the specific gravity headed a bit lower, does that mean the alcohol content is rising? The primary fermentation is speeding the process of the secondary; and cheating it of vital nutrients? I'm lost.

Thanks Mark

Reply to
pheasant
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There is some element of confusion about "primary" and "secondary" fermentation

Having been making so called "country wines" for over 30 years and more recently since kit wine makers made huge improvements with the end product of their kits, I have also made quite a lot of top line Kit wines.

Secondary fermentation always meant, to me, one of two things.

  1. That fermentation that takes place in the bottle of sparkling wines to produce the "Fizz" and also the similar process that takes place in "Bottled conditioned" beers.
  2. Also in wine making the Malolactic fermentation was always referred to as a "secondary fermentation.

Both these types were true secondary fermentation in that the fermentation was "RESTARTED" at some time after the primary fermentation had finished. In the case of my sparkling wines it was not less than 6 months after the primary had finished!

BUT the wine kit manufacturers "stole" the term as their kits improved and these days "Secondary Fermentation" frequently refers to the continuation of the Primary fermentation after a first racking off the lees. It really is just a continuation of the primary fermentation!

So you don't have to worry about the "secondary" cheating your must of its necessary nutrients and going too fast. As far as I can tell from your ost --- all is OK

In fact, after racking into the new "glass jug" and as the SG creeps lower, the fermentation slows down very quickly ( yes I know that sounds potty!). As the sugars decrease and the alcohol increases so the yeast has less sugar to convert and is also finding that living conditions are becoming more difficult due to the increase level of alcohol and the yeasts give up the ghost and go to the yeast place in the sky!

Reply to
pinky

I don't think you will find many people who will bit the head off a newbie for asking a question but you will find that many of us old timers do disagree among ourselves.

Trevor always gives good advise so listen to him. But I do have a different view on the terms. If you look back at the books that were written many years ago you will find the terms primary and secondary used very much as the kit makers use them.

When wine starts off, it is important to let the yeast have O2 as it is needed it for reproduction. Of course O2 is very bad for wine so at some point you need to exclude the air. After 3 to 7 days the yeast will have reproduced to an acceptable level and the alcohol level will have increased to a level that is at risk of being oxidized and you move the wine to a sealed container, excluding air. This stage is called Secondary.

You could consider the Primary as an aerobic fermentation stage and the Secondary as an anaerobic stage. I am not sure that is exactly accurate but I have seen it described that way.

There are many ways of determining when to rack to secondary. Some recipes just say rack after a certain number of days. Others say do it at a certain SG. Many fruit wines, including red grape, may say to rack it when the cap falls. They are all imprecise indicators and you could use any of them.

Just remember that wine making is a very forgiving hobby. Some people skip primary entirely and start in secondary. Others may wait until the SG drops to much lower than 1.040. I have had some fast fermenting wines hit 1.000 before I racked them. I don't recommend this but it still came out.

Ray

Reply to
Ray Calvert

I use a primary which has a tight fitting lid and a airlock. This allows me to ferment my must to dry before I tranfer to the glass carboy for clearing. Most people I have come across that transfer before its dry, either do because they have been taught that way, or they drape a cloth or cheese cloth over the top of their primary for the yeast to get oxygen. Also, the instructions on kits are made to be foolproof so they must be very conservative. That means transfer a little early incase the primary is not checked on early enough- which probably happens often with our busy lives. Lastly, Follow The Directions for the recipe. Even though I was taught it is okay to ferment wine dry in the sealed primary I follow the directions when doing an expensive kit from WineExpert or RJ. If your still looking for information there is a forum

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that has had this discussion, do a search and see what others say, every has their way.

Reply to
scott f

OK, hold it right there!!!! I have never heard of "yeast needing oxygen" to get started as being the reason why people begin fermentation in buckets covered with cheesecloth. I have been making wine since 1977. Today is the first time I have =everheard that yeastie-beasties needed O2 to get going. I always assumed that the reason people fermented in buckets to start with was because of the difficulty of keeping foam under control and not overloading the carboy/airlock combo's ability to bubble w/o splashing purple foam all over the walls (been there, done that). So what gives? How have I been making good wine for 28 years by putting the juice in the carboy and slapping an airlock on it from the word go????? I have even done this when using pureed fruit, such as blueberries...... Someone please explain this to me. TIA, Blobert!

--

-- "Honey, would you get me a beer?!" - Adam's first words to Eve-

Reply to
Bob

Bob You are totally right -- but the oxygen bit is a real need. It just so happens that there is enough around in normal circumstances. I have done exactly the same thing ( well very nearly). I have never covered with just a muslin/cheese cloth but always with a"sealing"type lid or a very tight lid with a fermentation lock. There is enough oxygen in the water added to "fruit" wines inherently and if you are punching down a fruit cap daily there is another source of oxygen.and in any case the header space has a lot of it too! I have always thought that the main reason for covering with a "cloth" was to stop the fruit flies getting to my must and that the vigorous initial fermentation kept a substantial "blanket" of CO2 over the must anyway

Reply to
pinky

I have also done this. I have also fermented using a loose fitting cover without having an air tight fit or airlock. I really can not say which method is better.

I know a lot of people CLAIM that the fermentation needs Oxygen in the early stages but I doubt it as long as you prepare a good starter before pitching.

The protective layer of CO2 on an active fermentation is going to keep most O2 exposure out anyhow. When using a non airlock primary, it IS important to watch and make sure that you transfer to airlock BEFORE you loose the protective layer of CO2 on top of the must. With an airtight lid and airlock, you do not have to be as concerned.

These are just my opinions and I am sure others will tell me that I am wrong and how important it is to have air for the primary. I have not proven this to be true to myself. Now days, I just cover to keep the bugs out and transfer when the cap drops - meaning the CO2 is not sufficient to raise the solids and also provide a protective cap and therefore there is a risk of spoilage.

Reply to
Paul E. Lehmann

blueberries......

Blobert,

Yeast does need oxygen to multiply, but under normal conditions, enough oxygen is dissolved in the liquid at the start of fermentation. More info here

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Lum Del Mar, California, USA

Reply to
Lum

Hey All;

Thanks for the advice, you all have confirmed my suspicions; winemaking is a forgiving art learned over time. The racking pull off just fine the SG was down to 1.01 by the time we got around to it, and even the cruddy looking liquid (I haven't learned the proper vocabulary yet) ;) tasted good, the dog was licking the floor where I missed the jug after pulling the siphon, and I got a mouthful when it started.

Hopefully in a couple years I'll be able to contribute back for the knowledge I'm gleaning from the group.

Mark

Reply to
pheasant

I mix my ingredients and do all my testing etc in a 24 litre pail. It is open to the air of course, and then I transfer it into a carboy that is only filled up to the point where the shoulder of the bottle begins curving in so it has enough head space to keep foam out of the airlock. My procedure must be doing it enough as is. :-) Bob<

Reply to
Bob

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