Stuck Primary Fermintation- Non starting

I would use a fresh pack of yeast and make a good starter. Then add it and see if things improve.

Ray

I suspect the temperature. Get it to room temp, and see if it starts up. BTW what is the current temp & sg of the must?

Steve

Ok This is the 17th now and still not started. I opened the lid and its gray yeasty cake looking (smells good) and bubbles are slowly "bursting". Looks like it wants to start but is vvveeerrrryyyy slow.

no activity from the air lock.

I checked the temp and is 65.

the SG is 1.090 still.

I think I will add another yeast packet/starter. what do you guys think?

will adding another packet mess it up? or mess the outcome of the wine?

also how long can you keep this thing before it starts to get bad.

should I transfer it to a carboy now? and then start over? Will agetating it help. rocking the bucket back and forth with the lid on?

thanks for all the responses back.

-Ron

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:20:25 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (R C Jr.) wrote: I have added the Benodite (desolved) and juice, stirred, topped up to 6 Gal. in the bucket and added the yeast and stirred before putting the lid on. the starting SG was 1.090

Steve Wrote: I suspect the temperature. Get it to room temp, and see if it starts up. BTW what is the current temp & sg of the must? Steve

Ron - Relax, have a glass of wine. This is a Gwurztraminer kit. It won't hurt to have it ferment slow. If you want this kit to take off, warm it up. Haul it up to where the temp. is in the 70s. It will take the better part of a day for the entire must to warm up. Them it will ferment rapidly. But, I ferment my white wines at 50F and it takes them a couple of weeks to get near SG 1.000. You will preserve a lot of the Gwurtz. aroma and fruity flavor by letting it go slow. From your description it appears that the must is fermenting, albeit slow. You don't need any more yeast but it won't hurt to add some if you must. If you want to put it in a carboy go ahead. In a day or so you will see lots of activity in the air lock.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

Actually, I would partially disagree. Yes, slower ferments are desirable but it's actually more the cold that preserves the white wine character rather than the speed of ferment (more precisely, they both do, but the ferment is slow because of the colder temperature, so it's the temperature that is the main factor).

Ideally, the ferment should start strong because there is increased danger of oxidation and other spoilage if the must sits around for several days without the yeast taking off. For that reason it's probably better to start at 70F or so and only take the temp down when they yeast takes off.

That was just a theoretical point for next time, practically, go with Bill's advice.

Pp

Might be fermenting so slow also if yeast is nutrient-starved (commercial winery terminology is YANC = Yeast Available Nitrogen Concentration). You'd be surprised how little active yeast it takes to get a decent fermentation going when the yeast has the proper nutrition.

Ron, might not hurt to give it a tad of yeast nutrient... mebbe 1 teaspoon per gallon of DAP (DiAmmoniumPhosphate), plus mebbe a 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of Fermaid K two days later.

I agree with Bill that the cooler, slow ferment will yield a fruitier Gewurtz... that would be my personal preference, too.

Gene

William Frazier wrote:

Hmmmm.... if one has good grapes to start with and manages the sulfite level to 30-50ppm, i'd not expect an oxidation issue. Heck, I cold soak for 1 day at 40-45 degF, let the must warm up in 60-65 degF closet while the native yeast does it's job for about 2 days, then inoculate with minimal (1/2 recommended dosage) yeast and DAP/Fermaid K and let it gradually warm up as yeast multiply over 3-4 days. Makes delicious sauv blanc that way. Total ferment takes a week or two. Am I doing something wrong?

Gene

You have to be careful about adding DAP or any other nutrient towards the end of ferment. It is recommened not to add below 4 Baume, as this leaves unprocessed nitrogen at the end, and makes the wine unpleasant. If you have a stuck ferment, the best options are to re-innoculate, with a rescue culture. That is to add in 1 1/2 - 2 times the amount you started with. If possible use a more vigourous yeast strain.

Hope this helps!

gene Jan 19, 6:05 am show options

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.winemaking From: gene - Find messages by this author Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:05:18 GMT Local: Thurs, Jan 19 2006 6:05 am Subject: Re: Stuck Primary Fermintation- Non starting Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse

Might be fermenting so slow also if yeast is nutrient-starved (commercial winery terminology is YANC = Yeast Available Nitrogen Concentration). You'd be surprised how little active yeast it takes to get a decent fermentation going when the yeast has the proper nutrition.

Ron, might not hurt to give it a tad of yeast nutrient... mebbe 1 teaspoon per gallon of DAP (DiAmmoniumPhosphate), plus mebbe a 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of Fermaid K two days later.

I agree with Bill that the cooler, slow ferment will yield a fruitier Gewurtz... that would be my personal preference, too.

Gene

A very good comment, clare; thank you. I had intepreted that the original poster was early in the ferment, but you're totally right; one should read the degBrix/specific gravity to know where in the ferment you are before attempting additions. It does make a big difference here. If the yeast are still alive but sick/dormant, sometimes adding yeast hulls will make them happy. Sometimes a yeast re-inoculation in one step; sometimes multi-step; sometimes need the more vigorous yeast like Prise de Mousse or Premier Cuvee or Epernay II if the alcohol in the wine is up in the low/mid teens already.

Gene

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

ok guys and gals. I added another yeast packet (premier cuvee) to the bucket yesterday and boy its taking off today.

it took 7 days to go.

My next question would be should I rack this thing and keep it in a carboy for 6 months before bottling or bottle it when its ready?

this is a 4 week kit.

usually fruit wines are to be consumed soon when ready before they lose there flavor.

any way to extend the range on this?

thanks to all who responded and helped me with this stuck fermintation. I learned alot.

-Ron Northern Ca

I'm assuming this is the Gewurtztraminer wine we're still talking about...

The most important parameters in my experience for maintaining fruitiness after primary ferment are: 1) rack into airlocked container when the wine is still fermenting but not foaming significantly, typically with sugar level 5-9 degBrix (1.015 to 1.033 specific gravity) [so last part of fermentation generates enough CO2 in airlocked container to purge oxygen from the headspace] 2) minimize the headspace in the airlocked container (just enough to allow for expansion from rising temperature, about 3/4 inch to 1 inch in the neck of the container below the bottom of the stopper), and 3) Maintaining adequate level of SO2 antioxidant in the wine. This is pH dependent, but general rule of thumb is 20-50 ppm free SO2 minimum, 100-150 ppm free SO2 maximum. I personally prefer 20-50ppm. as I don't like the taste of potassium metabisulfite. Others prefer little or no SO2 because they're allergic to it. The higher end of the range will protect the fruitiness more, but at the price of tasting the SO2.

Keeping the temperature constant during aging is more important than what temperature stored; daily fluctuations of 2deg F or less are ideal, but it's a do what you can proposition. I put my wine in an interior closet, with additional containers full of water around the wine container to act as thermal mass, minimizing temp fluctuation. Ideal storage temperature is 59-62 degF, though up to 70degF will do, just remember that the chemical reaction rates increase about twice for every 18degF increase. The higher the temperature, the quicker the aging.

Aging whites 9 months to a year generally improves flavor. Not to say you can't drink them sooner. The fruitiness does decline, but we're talking usually 2-3 years before noticeable decline if the pH and acid and sulfite levels were OK to start with. High pH (above 3.7) or low acid (below 0.5) and low SO2 (below 20ppm at bottling time) will be accompanied by shortened life.

The volume of wine being aged also affects the aging process. A 5 gallon carboy of wine bulk ages slower than a 1 gallon carboy, due to the greater thermal mass minimizing temperature fluctuation and the smaller headspace to wine volume ratio.

As always, what I expressed here are my own experience and opinions, YMMV.

Gene

R C Jr. wrote:

Hi Gene,

Yes, still on the Gewurtz.

I will be storing this in a walk in refrigerator at my friends brew shop. its at a constant 65 Degrees.

thanks for the response back.

-R I'm assuming this is the Gewurtztraminer wine we're still talking about...

Ideal storage temperature is 59-62 degF, though up to 70degF

Gene

R C Jr. wrote:

ok guys and gals. I added another yeast packet (premier cuvee) to the bucket yesterday and boy its taking off today.

it took 7 days to go.

My next question would be should I rack this thing and keep it in a carboy for 6 months before bottling or bottle it when its ready?

this is a 4 week kit.

usually fruit wines are to be consumed soon when ready before they lose there flavor.

any way to extend the range on this?

thanks to all who responded and helped me with this stuck fermintation. I learned alot.

-Ron Northern Ca