Aw-Right, you red-eye, blue collar brew swiggers: how many of you have NOT noticed that when you buy your favorite domestic (caaarf!) beer that the retailer likely has about 6 times as much of the Lite crap as he has of the regular stuff? Question is: what percentage of you know why? It ain't cuz we're all a pack of friggin' panzie's who suck up to our ol' ladies because American men have been pussified beyond Einstein's comprehension. Nope. It's got nothing more than their bottom line to do with it. It costs more to manufacture (American beer ain't brewed, it's formulated) a product that contains more alcohol, therefore the "brewers" highly market their Lite stuff to an American market that has been convinced that 'great taste' and 'less filling' ain't two mutually exclusive expectations, which of course, they are. So take that, all of you watered-down crap drinkers ;-) Even Mexicans know beer better than we do!!
Hey! P2Pansy! Next time you choose to excrete your opinions all over an NG, take a second or two to aim. The regular posters on alt.beer know a shitlot more about beer than you'll ever know, and we're not a bunch of red-eye blue collar (well, some of us are, and what a wonderfully elitist statement that was for you to make, you piss-artiste) brew swiggers. Get over yourself; just because you've had a draft Guinness without crying doesn't make you a better person than anyone.
Mia Culpa to those I offended.... elitism is something that I can be overbearing with a bit, but mostly what I said was intended good fun. The brewers and their marketing tactics are the thrust of my point, and the number of people who are not aware (or interested) in how we Americans are being screwed by products that do not measure up except in making a profit for their respective manufacturers. If you are saying that this does not matter, may I ask, why not? Are we not deserved a high quality product rather than just to be convinced that horse piss is fit for the gods? My 'elitism' goes this far: if nearly every country on the planet has proved that its' beers are collectively superior to ours, how can we not find that issue of some significance? If condemnation of our nation's beers is too much for you to swallow, then perhaps you can get a bigger kick out of berating 'Top Posters', (God, what a mortal sin!)
You really don't get it at all, Nibble-Nuts. The point is, your statement is not news to any of the regulars at alt.beer. Actually, it's bullshit in a number of ways: for instance, "if nearly every country on the planet has proved that its' beers are collectively superior to ours": sez who? We just got the results from the Great American Beer Festival judging yesterday, a bunch of excellent beers. In the judgment of people who actually know what they're talking about, America is the very best place for a beer-lover to be, because of the huge variety of excellent beers we make here. Yeah, the microbreweries are small, but breweries making worthwhile beer in other countries are generally pretty small, too. There are exceptions, but not many. And there are only a small number of countries that are in the top tier with the U.S.: Belgium, Germany, the UK, the Czech Republic, Canada, Japan, Austria, France...and that's about it. If you're judging American beer by Bud, Miller Lite, and Coors Lite, the joke's on YOU. And if you're getting screwed by products that do not measure up...dude, YOU need to buy something else. Because it IS available. I drank it all day yesterday at a great little beer festival in Pennsylvania.
If you're feeling like you're howling into the night with the good beer news...stick around and learn something. Seriously. Or don't. It's your choice.
Thanks, Lew, I needed that, I guess. Yeah, I knew that in the back of my mind that there are good American beers, and I suppose that I was just offensively overlooking the fact that some great beers in the U.S. are available. I'm still galled that the overwhelming majority of what is out there is brewcrap. Would it be conceivable that something good could be mass produced and marketed at a price that would be competitive with the majority? What I'm inferring is this: vodka maker's prices are more predicated by marketing rather than quality of taste, as has been proved recently by independant tests. Beer is not a complex molecular compound either: I'm unwilling to drive across town to a specialized pub only to pay inflated prices for brew that might otherwise be available at some package store if only more Americans knew what quality taste was, and insisted upon it. It's simply a reflection of depreciated U.S.quality, be it beer, soda, automobiles, or housing, where such is often defined by waferboard boxes with unGodly architecture and garish window designs.
"P2P Xtasy" schreef in bericht news:5u10f.125$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
You can't be serious, no? They'd wish one had a full inventory of all possible organic molecules in your average Pilsener (let's not talk Bud). In top fermenting ales, it's even worse, and then there's lambics and other spontaneous or mixed fermentations. They even haven't identified all possible compounds in (all possible) hops, let alone the derivatives of the living yeast cells. Phew. Joris
All right, I'll apologize for calling you Nibble-Nuts, then. But beer IS a complex molecular compound; certainly more complex than vodka.
Seriously, though: where are you? I'm in a small town in southeast PA, and there are two beer stores in town. One is boring, but the other, within 1/4 mile of the first one, has a stellar selection. Likewise with bars: Of the approximately 15 in town, there are five with good selections, and one with a monster collection of Belgian bottles and a constantly changing selection of micro/import taps. It may be where you are. Large parts of urban America are doing pretty well.
Lew, you wouldn't understand if I simply told you where I am first. It's a little town called Dallas. In President Bush's home state. The city has some of the most screwed up liquor laws of anyplace in the country. Our city is divided into precincts and each one has chosen by the voters whether to be wet or dry. Major parts of Dallas are dry (thanks to good ol' Southern Baptistry), which means some of us who want to buy alcohol must drive a distance. Yes, every available beer that is brewed in the world is probably available here, but not around the corner, and certainly not at six dollars a six pack which I try not to exceed by much very often. So it's not exactly like my hands are tied; it's just that I'm a bit upset with the junk that is being pawned of to John Q., whom I place myself among. I remember domestics from my childhood tasting far superior to what they do now (not my imagination, look at soft drinks and remember back to the early sixties before they reformulated them to taste like Sam's Club Cola). Things are just different now, that's all.
I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of people out there who
*like* what the major breweries produce. I've known several people over the years who have tried other beers, much more flavorful beers, beers that give a small group of near- to total geeks chubbies, and they go back to their Bud or Miller or Coors. Why? Because they *prefer* it. Not because some animated lizard told them to.
Because there are roughly 484 trillion things more urgent in this world than how beer is marketd.
Are we not deserved? We are deserved something resembling proper English, for one. Secondly, I have absolutely zero problem finding bundles of high-quality product when it comes to beer. Clearly, you're not trying hard enough.
Because it's bullshit. No one has proved any such thing. Go to any country, find their mass-produced fizzy yellow lager, and it's at least as shitty as anything the major American breweries crank out. In many countries, it's far, far worse. And even in countries with great beer traditions, like Germany and Britain, the fizzy yellow lagers are what sell the most.
Not to mention, I'll hold up American beers against any country on the planet. No country, none, has the enormous variety of excellent beer that America has. None. Not Belgium. Not England. Sure as hell not Ireland or Germany. Canada would be the closest contender, because they've had much the same evolution in brewing over the last 25 years that the U.S. has.
Or did you not know that there's more to American beer than what comes out of St Louis, Milwaukee and Golden, Colo.?
It might be too much to swallow if it came from someone who had the faintest idea what he was on about. As such, coming from someone who clearly has a very limited view of what's out there, it's about as difficult to swallow as a glass of water.
It's not just beer. Look at the largest and most popular businesses in the country. McDonald's. Wal Mart. General Motors. Or look at what sells well for entertainment. Most people do not buy quality. Beer's not going to be any different.
To be honest, no. I don't see it in restaurants - unless you consider Applebee's and Chili's to be quality. I don't see it in retail. I don't see it in entertainment. I don't see it in the grocery.
And even if consumers were interested in buying higher quality on a large scale (the demand is certainly there on smaller scales, but not anywhere near the scale that a McDonald's or Wal Mart operates on), it would be very difficult to produce those goods at the same price as the mediocre. Quality takes attention, quality ingredients or components, etc. And those things cost money, either in the materials that go into the product, or in the labor used to produce them. There are some exceptions - In 'N Out Burger, for instance, produces a vastly superior burger than any other fast food chain, and at a competitive price - but they are few and far between.
Get the right group of people, with their subjective tastes, and you can "prove" anything. I'm always skeptical of those. Although, it's not difficult to make the case in terms of vodka. It's a neutral spirit. Those who say there are no differences are dead wrong, but there is nowhere near the variance in vodka that there is in, say, whisk(e)y.
Actually, the process of making beer is very complex at the molecular level. Read up on brewing sometime. You'll be fascinated. Or at least surprised by the complexity of the biochemical reactions that occur just during fermentation, let alone what goes on in the malting and brewing processes themselves.
And that's your fault, frankly. Specialty products are not going to come to you. You have to go to them. I do it all the time. I like doing it, in fact. And, frankly, it's not much different in Europe. With some scattered exceptions, there are very few places on the planet you can walk into any old pub or bar and know you're going to get a really good beer. Very few.
Serious question: Have you spent much time outside the country? It's easy to go the Americans are idiots route because, well, they are. But here's the thing: People are idiots, anywhere and everywhere. There are certainly some areas in which Americans as a whole are worse - for example, in the area of food, Americans in general tend to value speed, convenience, enormous portions (or "value") and predictability over quality and distinctiveness. The French, for example, tend to be the opposite. But the French have appaling taste in other areas, bland lager outsells any of the UK's traditional beers by huge margins, and in Germany, the most popular beers are barely different than the likes of Coors. The U.S. is not unique in its embrace of the middle-of-the-road. It's everywhere.
"Steve Jackson" wrote in news:_hn0f.238$wR4.178@trnddc03:
Perceived quality sells like crazy. Ask Chrysler.
My limited understanding is that craft (whatever that means) beers are the only growing segment in the market. This means that while Coors/Miller/bud just dick with each other, they are all losing share.
I guess maybe the clown is losing market to the king. I just don't care. I guess maybe there are those of us that obsess about how last month Coors delivered 10 cases more than Bud to Fuckwit County.
BBC/Sam Adams? Guinness? Fuller's anything?
No, they don't. I'll take a slider any day.
Not only is InO not worth the wait, but Tommy's makes a vastly superior burger. And unlike In 'n' Out, Tommy's understands that lunchtime might just be busy. InO: "We don't throw the fleshdisc on the big hot metal thing 'til you tell us to." Meh. It's lunchtime. I could wait 5 minutes for a burger at BK or I could wait 20 at In 'n' Out Urge. Easy choice.
In 'n' Out: They have somehow convinced people that waiting is a bonus (ala Guinness). If I feel like waiting, I'll take a Fatburger (or even a Fuddruckers) any day.
In 'n' Out: I only go there when Superkid has earned a treat and that's what she asks for. "Vastly superior" - not. And their fries suck, just in case you haven't noticed.
I have yet to be anything other than underwhelmed. The InO burgers are small masses of wax-paper-wrapped Thousand Island dressing. Yay.
Better burgers are to be had in less the time.
If In 'n' Out was a brewpub chain, which one would they be, in your opinion?
In 'n' Out is like Coors in the '70s, nothing more. Or...Pinks: The dog itself is nice 'n' snappy, but the chili is watery garbage, the buns are grocery store cheapos, the service is I'm- an-actor-and-you're-bothering-me, and the whole thing is lukewarm when it gets to you. Apparently famous, but the execution is far, far less than I could make at home in half the time.
"unGodly"?
You invoke the Name of God to address your perception of US product quality? God help you. I'm guessing (again) that He does not want you to pull stupid shit like that out of your ass.
If US products are unGodly, what are, say, Honda products? Has God bestowed His blessing on Ford or Nissan or Checker or Romeo? Which? Apparently You Know.
I vote for Aston-Martin, but that's just me.
Which products has God given His approval for? I want a comprehensive list, please.
Brand of milk? 3 1/2" coarse-thread drywall screws? Kumho or Cooper? Low pulp or...? I want...no, sorry, I NEED your list of God-Approved products because I buy beer often and if it's not God-Approved, well, I'll burst into flame if I drink it. And I don't want to burst into flame. We need a dishwasher (ie, box of elves) badly. So I need your list because if Kenmore isn't on God's list...well, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I certainly don't want non-God-approved evil in my house.
Americans are narrow in their views. For example, they don't understand why all families in the World do not own at least one car.
"P2P Xtasy" wrote in news:%kl0f.8610$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
First? My sister lives in Grapevine. She's first.
George W. Bush's home state is Connecticut. But he can hardly speak English, so I can see where you might be confused.
What can I send you? I'm not sure I can do < $1 a bottle, but I'm willing. How 'bout this: I'll send you a growler of BBC Long Beach Crude - Gold medal, Sweet Stout (means nothing to the brewery, apparently), LA County Fair.
Email me privately.
Serious (as Superkid would say).
Heh! I remember Erlanger and Killians and Michelob.
In 1977+/-1, I bought Michelob at $1.80/case on a BX literally 2,000 miles from anywhere.
You know...I hate to admit this, but Wal-Mart actually does sell some really good shit. Tools, for instance. I get really good diesel fuel treatment there that I couldn't get elsewhere except by mail order. I just don't like the stores. But some of the shit they sell is really good. Hard to admit for a chain-hater like me, but it's the truth.
I vote for Aston-Martin, but that's just me. _____________________________________
Aston Martin? UnGodly, to be sure. UnGodly smooth , fast, cool, sexzee, not to mention expensive, which would probably be reason enough not to get God's personal approval for Jesus' ride should he come back for a second term of 'office'. Remember, Jesus was a humble man, not likely to be seen in a Hummer, be it a 1, 2, or III.
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