On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:04:07 +0100, to wrote (in message ):
Anything that INCREASES pressure on pubs to buck up their ideas is OK with me. A bloody good boot up the arse is what the British pub trade needs.
If you're scared that it's your favourite RA-friendly pubs that will suffer due to poor profitability , tough. I've said it before and I'll say it again
- real ale is underpriced.
The greatest thing CAMRA could do for real ale businesses (pubs and brewers) is use the slogan "Real Ale - worth paying more for".
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 1:27:34 +0100, Paul Shirley wrote (in message ):
I don't believe we deserve it, nor do I want it.
Because there are so many in CAMRA who are a bunch of ignorant loudmouths that subscribe to utter bollocks.
No they did actually, we got hate male from a CAMRA member in Lincolnshire!
It is deep hypocrisy to 'killfile' someone then claim *their* minds are closed, but hey, you wont read this will you - too busy being open minded in your local I suppose.
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 4:13:49 +0100, Chris Rockcliffe wrote (in message ):
This is the 'golden era' image I mentioned.
I don't understand the relevance?
Not very good is it, but it is very often the case that greater proportion of what you pay for a pint of real ale goes on marketing than if you were buying a pint of mass produced lager. I don't have the figures to hand but I can dig them out if you want.
Not sure I agree with the last bit. That's the kind of complacency that does a lot of damage to brewers in this country. Personally I'd rather drink a US version of a 'British' pale ale.
Funnily enough I post on this group because I like real ale.
BOLLOCKS. You've just bought into one of the great CAMRA myths - "it was much better in the old days".
In days gone by "the ordinary young working man" was using the same criterion to drink by as he is now - the beer achieves or exceeds minimal palatability and the price is accepable. That's it.
"Caffreys say is quite good". You said it. You've blown any credibility you might have had.
It seems you know bugger all about the reasons Burton style ales took over from porters as the dominant beer style. You've even got the date wrong. "100 years ago".
Another of the great CAMRA myths threatens to rear its ugly head - "lager drinkers are brainwashed".
"you might even like it". HA HA HA. Yes I suppose our kid & I will get round to trying it one day. Patronising git.
Christ. Get a grip. You're the typical British business owner, who thinks his customers exist for his benefit, not vice versa. Are you related to Basil Fawlty by any chance?
They manage civil opening hours perfectly well on the continent. Why can't we do the same here?
I'd thoroughly agree with this recommendation. Another great Edinburgh pub, that still uses air pressure fonts (I don't know if they are still water engines) is the Bow Bar, on West Bow/Victoria Street (runs between the Grassmarket and George IV Bridge). It was established by the same management team that now runs Thompsons Bar.
"I'm interested in taste and/or bite and flavour and/or bitterness and/or maltiness. That's why I want 'real ale'. As a straight thirst quencher, Caffreys say is quite good, but I couldn't drink more than a glass of it".
To quote you from an earlier post: "Perhaps you are just a bunch of real ale fascists!". The you come up with this fascist sounding s**te (above) yourself.
Caffreys is an ad' agency invented brand from the Bass brewery - purporting to have an Irish pedigree when it does not; but despite that, it has been a huge success story in the UK and also gathering pace in the US. Americans are now complaining because the brand (controlled by Coors) has been withdrawn from wide distribution.
Whatever it may be, it is not "s**te". It is a beer with a very good market share; popular with the young and with women I'm told. Many people like it and many like it a lot!
However to quote another of your gems: "Another of the great CAMRA myths threatens to rear its ugly head - "lager drinkers are brainwashed".
Caffreys too is proof that advertising beer brands - lagers or nitros - and creating lifestyle campaigns - works very well indeed. If you want to call it being brainwashed, you can.
I may prefer real ales myself, but not everyone else does.
In fact why not close Monday and Tuesday lunchtime as well? You really are painting yourself into a corner.
No they haven't. What they have said was that individuals do not drink any more alcohol as a result of increased opening hours. Therefore you have no evidence to assert that trade in Scotland's pubs has increased, decreased or stayed the same.
Of course it isn't a survey, unlike you I didn't claim "evidence", I simply stated that every licensee and bar manager that I spoke to said that you were wrong. Besides, five licensees, six bar staff and about thirty customers is lot more "evidence" that one A.Perrow.
You ignore the fact that others have put that we are talking about flexible not extended hours. The second mistake you make is to misunderstood the difference between an individual's drinking habits (lets say it stays the same, ie no increase, no decrease) and the fact that as a result of opening at times when customers want to use the pub, it attracts more customers.
Totally irrelevant to this argument. However you clearly do not know Scotland very well these days as the cask ale scene is very much on the up.
Suggest you do a bit more recent research.
Totally irrelevant to this debate.
At the end of the day, what is being argued for are flexible hours.By opposing flexibility you are by definition inflexible and in my view have no right to determine if a licensee can open or shut at a particular time.
Some pretty naive people seem to have found the newsgroup. I doubt if any reader does not know of at least one pub that closes Sundays, quite a lot of us know of ones that don't bother with lunch opening on quiet weekdays, many that voluntarily have restricted opening hours.
Hell, I know of only 2 pubs in Leicester that open all available hours on ANY day of the week (both the JDW's, who were opening early to serve breakfast anyway).
Circumstances change, businesses respond. Those that won't are in the wrong job.
My local chooses to close every Sunday, bank holiday Mondays and New Years' Eve. The many pubs within a minute or two walk do not choose to close at these times. Pubs are not all forced to open the same hours now, or in the future.
Why not try some gratuitous insults as a means of dialogue? Or is your comment along the lines of self referral?
Well I don't. Perhaps someone could inform me of a local within say a 5 mile radius of Skipton which doesn't open Sundays? Sunday lunchtime is now a very necessary trading time for most pubs. As far as not opening on quiet weekdays, are you suggesting that they did open lunchtimes, but when hours were increased they decided to close on lunch times? Please try to connect cause with effect, and not merely relate unconnected data.
Which is how jdw's are responsible for other pubs losing viability. They have terrific buying power when compared with say single licencees, and can afford to sell at prices others cannot.
You're not related to one m. thatcher by any chance are you? You've certainly never owned a pub, that's for sure! The main factor driving where drinkers drink are availability (ie the pub being open) and price. That being so, jdw's will continue to increase, which is fine if your idea of a good pub begins and ends at jdw, but if like me you like a choice of pub, then you might not be such a fan.
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