10 Teas to Start With

I understand what you are saying, but I think you may be missing what I was aiming for. When I started into tea I did essentially what you state, but without even knowing that there are different types of oolongs (roasted, floral, green, etc.) so I would buy oolongs based on no real foundation and be disappointed when as soon as the hot water hit the leaf and I would be met with a flowery bouquet. I had wasted money, time, and tea. To just have been told that some oolongs are flowery and some are not and a couple names to look out for would have helped tremendously. To know that Sencha and Dragonwell are both "green teas" but quite different is similarly helpful, I know because I had this conversation with a family member (and the confusion and question came from them because of a trip to Teavanna).

I titled it 10 teas to start with, with the goal of listing 10 teas that cover almost all of the different flavors and styles tea has to offer. So with the purchase of even just 10 samples of one of each of these for say a total of $10-20 from a site like Upton tea a person could experience a wide array of tea that would help them pinpoint which areas they want to delve into further, and which they can set aside for the moment.

Chances are if they have any attraction to say a sencha (even a basic one) they will then explore that realm with a bit more confidence and understanding instead of continuing to buy Chinese greens looking for a taste that will never be there. (again, from personal experience something a friend had been doing)

We sometimes lose sight of what exactly a person just venturing into tea *today* has to contend with. It's quite a lot more than I suspect you are assuming, there is a lot of misinformation, flavored teas, teas selling for very high prices in grocery stores claiming to be "the best" with names of gyokuro and puerh and others on them but offering next to nothing of the real thing.

I had not thought of directly relating the teas in the list to the brewing primer because I assumed too much and you are correct that I should state where something like Ceylon or DJ fits in. I had expected the two pieces of information to be separate guides for separate uses. I will look into connecting the dots... I had planned on writing more specific and detailed brewing guides successively to help flesh out the basic guide in time.

I appreciate you comments and I know it can be hard for us to step back and see through new eyes (especially since when many of us were starting out the Internet didn't exist, and tea was a different animal in the U.S.).

- Dominic

I was really worried you would take what I said the wrong way which you didnt. I think the biggest mistake 'today' people feel they have to make the right choice. I think curiosity more important than knowledge. And if tea ever becomes established in this country sadly it will come from multicultural diversity. I have a new mantra, if you can make coffee you can make tea. I had a relevation last night there is no reason I couldnt percolate shu. Im going to try to find a nofrills percolator this weekend. I imagine if I do it right it would taste like Louisianne with Chickory. It has been 'percolating' in my subconscious since I tasted some cooked in a yixing pot which I reported. I have other teas in mind.

Jim

PS Sure pe> On Oct 23, 10:28 am, Space Cowboy snipped-for-privacy@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >

...drink Lipton while waiting for your Upton samples...

I have tried several of your suggestions regarding brewing techniques and always found them helpful. You have obviously put a lot of work into understanding tea.

It would be very helpful to me if you care to post links to specific teas that are good examples of the ones in your Top Ten list above.

I have been buying from Upton. When I do a search on their site for the names in your list (Ceylon, Sencha), I get dozens of teas. A search for "Shui Xian" gets zero hits, but either "Shui" or "Xian" alone, gets a few.

If you have time to include specific teas from Upton, I would appreciate it. I'll check other vendors, too, but I have a gift certificate for Upton that I haven't used up.

Thanks

Thank you for the kind words, I'm truly glad you find it helpful, that is my main goal. Just like initially I really was trying to be helpful in discouraging the super-rigid "parameters," not bashing the scientific method or those who prefer structure. As I alluded to then, I am an IT/scientific guy myself so I do understand the desire or "need" but tea is even better when not constrained to those same constructs. And if it is how you personally enjoy your tea, then go for it, I'd be amazed however that if after time and familiarity grows that those hard and fast parameters don't go out the window.

So, on to your questions... Upton's is one of my last resorts when it comes to tea (I swear I'm not just antagonizing you personally, you can read the archives :) They often have quality and freshness issues. Their leaf is rarely beautiful and whole and the freshness is always barely passable... but that is because a number of the teas I drink stand out best when fresh and good quality. Some teas it is less affected and Upton's can be OK for. My suggestion would be to buy the sample sizes of one of each on the list (I think they all can be found at Upton's) For any category with a ton of options, pick the cheapest, one in the middle pricewise, and the most expensive of the category. Upton's will have decent Ceylon, Darjeeling, Keemun, and TGY, they even have some loose puer which isn't so hot but will give you the idea. I have never tried their Long Jing/Dragonwell, and their sencha yamato is borderline passable.They do not carry shui xian as such, but their standard/fine/choicest oolongs are closest in approximation, I'd go with maybe the middle one.

Teaspring.com is probably the best balance of price to quality you will find for many of these teas (they are Chinese tea only so no Ceylon, Darjeeling, or Sencha). After you use up your gift card, and start narrowing down what you liked and disliked, have a similar go at them with teaspring. They too offer samples (but they tend to be a bit more expensive, however contain more tea, than Upton's samples.

From there you should have some key favorites nailed down, then you can explore since there are so many variations and choices and have fun learning about that type of tea. Then move on to some of the more expensive but high-quality offerings from specialty vendors since you know what you'll be buying.

I truly hope this helps and feel free to post any questions or if you need help choosing one tea over another from Upton's. Myself and others here will likely have tried it or know enough to point you in the right direction.

Enjoy!

- Dominic

(sigh) You just had to get one more shot in. I wonder who really is the rigid one...

Teaspring is a curious site. I'll take your word that they have great tea. The website does not inspire confidence. Lots of typos and the recommendations look generic and canned.

The brewing recs for the Shui Xian, for example, say,

"Steep tea leaves in hot water at 100°c (212°F) for 1 minute for the first and second brewing. Gradually increase steeping time and temperature for subsequent brewing."

It's too bad they don't tell me how to gradually increase the temperature above 212F. Maybe it needs to be brewed in a pressurized room. ;-)

Some of the reviews are downright goofy. The very first reviewer of Yunnan Gold says,

"This is a fine pu erh has the typical taste..."

I guess not all of their customers are connoisseurs.

Anyway, I'll try 3-4 of their teas. They have a couple that I already have from Upton. I'll brew them side-by-side and see if I can tell any difference. It's possible that I'm too obtuse (or rigid?) to notice anything but gross differences.

haha, fair enough. Yeah, Teaspring doesn't always seem like it would be a solid site, but the owner is very nice and has good communication. Ignore the reviews and suggestions mostly, I have had some issue with them as well as far as the descriptions go. Never with the tea. It is probably the best balance of price to performance in tea online. Think of it as the mid-point in quality, which is great for daily drinking teas. It's not on the list but their Huo Shan Huang Ya (yellow tea) is excellent. One time it was so fresh it almost bowled me over when I opened it up. It's like a lighter green tea with sweet/corn notes that I love, but it goes stale quickly so I only order it in smaller amounts.

A direct comparison is great, and will really show you the differences. Don't accelerate it too much though, explore in this price/quality range and then eventually work upwards. It really will allow you to detect the sometimes very subtle differences in good to great tea. If you don't spend enough time with the lower and mid ranges you'll miss out.

Recently I wanted to start exploring black teas/red teas in more depth since it isn't an area I delve into often. I started at Teaspring and ordered one or two of each in the ones I was looking to check out (If there were a lot I grabbed the lowest priced one and the highest) Then worked through them one or two a day and over a week or two, immersing myself in them only. Then noting the few that I liked, then I went on to explore those some more. Out of probably 12 teas only one really stuck and I'll add it to my stable... one (rou gui) was a letdown from them totally and I'll buy elsewhere before making a judgement. That's just my way of tackling this task, it works the best for me and I think it ends up being the most practical and budget friendly.

And there are times when I have a really rare/special/new tea that I break out my little thermometer and digital scale so that all has it's place to be sure. I really would love to hear how it goes and what you end up liking/disliking, I think it would be helpful to everyone not just me.

- Dominic

Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would be great.

If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I end up drinking red wine with fish).

If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.

BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.

I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing, Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were two instances in over 10+ orders.

My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/ green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still didn't find much to like.

Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.

- Dominic

That's like a novice carpenter asking a journeyman what tools they should buy for a starter set. The journeyman says, "Well, you'll need a hammer, a drill, a set of screwdrivers, a level, etc..." The novice goes to the hardware store and is overwhelmed by the choices for each tool. He goes back to the journeyman and says, "They had 50 hammers,

Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful. I appreciate it.

Unfortunately, the TeaSpring website was a complete disaster. It is riddled with bugs. I created an account and started adding teas to my shopping cart. At some point, it created a second shopping cart, so that I had teas in two places. Sometimes I would see one cart, sometimes the other.

After I got all of the teas in one cart, I tried to checkout. I was presented with the new user screen. I had to log in again.

When I finally got all of the information entered and clicked Make Payment, I was told that my credit card was rejected. I use that card all the time. It's perfectly good.

Backing up, I discovered that the program did not fill in my compelte address, even though I provided all of that information when I created my account. I reentered it manually, but the credit card was rejected again.

This website is not ready for prime time.

Do you have another vendor to recommend? Maybe one with a working website?

Honestly I have never had such issues with their website... what browser are you using. I order all the time with Firefox. Really there is no good alternative for Chinese teas of the level of quality for the price. I promise you, I trusted Daniel enough that the tea for my wedding came from him... and was outstanding.

I understand your comment on the journeyman/hammer analogy... but just the same, I guarantee the tools you pick out day one (even if handed an exact list) will not be the tools you are using in your second year. You will have different likes/dislikes/feel/looks/etc. than even a "master" carpenter and those will change and transform over time. The reason I say to go with your gut when there is a choice to be made, is that within those categories the variance is fairly subtle, so if one leaps out at you for some reason (shape, color, price, whatever) it will be fine, and the fact that *you* had some connection with it instead of just picking up a shopping list verbatim from someone else adds some personal attachment that otherwise wouldn't be there. When you really define what you like and don't like then we can offer more exact reference points and teas to shoot for. Just like the blind choice of a framing hammer, a ball peen, and a waffle head of a novice will all pound a nail into a board.

It's all about personal growth and experience and your own journey, I am not trying to take you down a pre-recorded tourist trap attraction with stops at A, B, and C. I don't herd well, and I would never herd someone else. My journey had many years of terrible tea and no outside help and a lot of disappointment and floundering with very few magical moments, many would have given up, I'm just stubborn and persisted. Later on as I wanted a better aha! to boo! ratio and still didn't have a guide or help, I would turn to reading up on the particular area the tea came from and tried to get a handle on the history and providence which would often result in if even still a mediocre cup a cup that I understood and "felt" more which added a bit to the taste in the mind.

- Dominic

Dont buy any teas from a website that cant sell you any. You read that Homer Simpson syllogism correctly. Your trouble with websites is just beginning. Youre better off driving to a tea shoppe across town, across state, across country every 6 months to stock up. I dont consider it unreasonable for a $200 round trip to SF Chinatown by air from where I live. Youll learn more in one day than $200 worth of website guessing. Hey I was in Teavana the other day and didnt get accosted by any employee. The store was empty. They have $6 8oz double wall classes like my $12 Pavina. I cant find a cheap percolator for my puers. Theyre all in the $50+ range.

Jim

Of course. Beginners have different needs than experts. But that is not my point.

A beginner's gut is often useless and sometimes dangerous. A shopping list can be a tremendous aid.

It almost sounds like you want everyone to suffer as you did. My mother used to say that if it was good enough for her it was good enough for me. Nevermind that she was raised in the horse and buggy days.

I find it amusing that you are protecting me from you. Did you have a bad experience with nuns in your youth? I don't herd well, either, as you might have guessed. I asked which hammer to buy. I am perfectly capable of looking at the other hammers and maybe buying another one that "catches me eye". But I will have the exact hammer recommended by a master carpenter. If the one that "caught my eye" doesn't work so well, I'll have the right one handy to compare and learn. Otherwise, I go back to the store and see what else "catches my ignorant eye" or just give up. I really don't want to learn by trial and error when perfectly good (and, apparently, hard-earned) expertise is available.

PS: Price is not a major concern. Tea isn't that expensive. Is there another tea vendor that is, in your opinion, equal to or better than TeaSpring?

Seven Cups, Imperial Tea Court, Silk Road Teas. Slightly more boutique/ limited/specific offerings: Jing's Tea Shop, Houde Asian Art, and O- cha (for the Japanese tea).

The first three in that list should fit the bill for almost all of the teas on the list, the prices will be higher, the quality will also be generally higher.

You have to remember most of the best tea to be had online will not come from a flashy website, these are often small growers/vendors. The trust to order from someone like Stephane Erler or Yunnan Sourcing or many other small/single person operations is often worth it. If I passed on the times I had a generic open source/yahoo commerce site or nothing but an Excel spreadsheet and paypal to rely on, I'd have missed out on some great tea over the years. Again, you are welcome to your opinions and standards and I guarantee the vendors I listed will fit the bill.

- Dominic