Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.
Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?
Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.
Since there're a lot of organic teas to try, I'm switching to organic tea for the time being for a lot of my teas. You can get organic Assams, Nilgiris, Ceylons, and whites. Oolongs are more difficult. Toci
Drink at your own risk. Organic tea from China does not exist.
i try to drink organic tea but i think even non organic teas are generally quite safe
There is no such thing really as organic tea (my belief in any so- called organic food is minimal at best anyhow though) Mainly for the fact that no one can control the ground/soil contents or the rain, atmosphere, runoff, etc. regardless of what they do. It is a fact of life today. This whole "organic" business is just that, a business.
I have always said from day 1 that I fully believe any perceived health benefits in tea are nullified by environmental/handling/ processing issues. I just hope the balance is in favor of the health side and less on the dark side. But it is always just that, a hope.
I have seen "organic" okra test so high for uranium it was off the charts. I've seen artesian wells test high for lead, cyanide, and a host of other nasty things... the bottom line is that with tea it is a sponge. It soaks up and concentrates, especially into new growth which are the prized buds and leaves, and that is just how it is. EGCG and all the rest of the health benefit B.S. is nothing but marketing and hype. Drink tea because you want to, and you enjoy it, and also remember to take a break from the stuff every now and then for some water or other drink to keep things in some sort of balance. I know I can put away 10-14 cups a day easily, I also know I don't do 10-14 cups of anything else, even water... so I know I'm way out of any sort of balance there and if there happens to be toxins/chemicals in some of the tea I'm drinking I'm getting nice steady, prolonged doses which is just about the worst possible way to do it. I understand it, I accept it, and I move on with life.
Spending extra for some silly stamp of approval is just that, silly. If you want "organic" then patronize your local small farms and growers for as much as possible, it probably won't help one bit in the end but at least you kept a hard-working family alive instead of some corporate mill. Speaking of which, my tea bush is growing like crazy now that it is a bit older... at this rate I'll have to charge about $10,000/oz. but it is the most "organic" tea ever grown and has never been subject to anything since it has been in my greenhouse from birth and hand cared for with no contact with the environment except the sunlight that comes in and the air that circulates through. I'll be taking orders for about year 2010, so get them in early... *crickets chirping*
- Dominic
Upton has a bunch of Chineses organic teas. What is the "miscommunication?" Toci
I think the "miscommunication" can be the standards by which "organic" is determined. There is a "world" standard, a US standard" and here in California, very rigid standards. The criteria have to do with how long the soil has been untainted, the seeds or actual growing product untainted, the packaging untainted etc. And then, there is the inevitable question of actually adhering to those criteria. Here in California, we have inspections. Who knows what truly goes on in Chinese "inspections". Mydnight, do you know exactly what are the criteria for organic growing in China and if there are qualified inspectors who actually inspect? In my mind, you're probably bound to get a hellofalot more poisons in an FDA inspected American hot dog than you would in a cup of Chinese tea. I guess it's all relative, eh? Shen
Not, if you grow something organic, you do not put more pesticides in the environment.
So, the more organic the best for all.
pesticides are organic and biodegradable
I understand this, and I'm also not going to come down on anyone who want to eat only "organic" products... fine by me. But I will say that it matters not one bit whether *you* use pesticides, if the crop is planted in the ground, in the open it will be almost indistinguishable from a "non" organic product when analyzed. No one can control groundwater, rain, runoff, air quality, etc. as if they were in a bubble... unless they are in a bubble. I have a lot of family and friends in the agriculture business and even the ones who grow organic produce will not try to sugar-coat the reality of the situation. It is what it is, and as they will even gladly admit, the "organic" labeled produce sells and sells for a large markup and in many cases it is absolutely no different than how they have been growing those same tomatoes, corn, cucumbers in years past. They love this new marketing and hype, they don't pay a cent to advertise it and they reap all of the benefits.
To think anything is going to grow in China and not be tainted in some way or another though is fooling themselves, same goes for right here in the good ole US of A, no difference. If you have a local family farm or co-op, like I said, go for it. It's better than a Whole Foods market or Wal-Mart and you are directly helping local people in your community, if that "green" product had to take a half way around the world journey to get to you, you've already offset any carbon/CO2/etc. that was saved in the production... but you saved there being double the amount... so I guess that's a plus. Again, just my views, but having some familiarity with it all, I can safely say that it is a business and it is a fad and there will always be folks willing to fill a niche.
- Dominic
I completely agree with you. I recently read a newspaper article about a woman who became ill due to drinking green tea which was contaminated with DDT (she drink the same tea for a couple of years - a cheap Chinese green tea). While I agree that "going organic" is no guarantee of avoiding toxins, I do think that going organic can help to reduce the chance of your tea being contaminated. I recently asked Upton Tea about how they ensure that their teas are organic - they told me that they do test most of the organic teas from time to time to make sure everything is ok. I also read that in 2000 the EU introduced new standards for tea. The number of restricted chemicals jumped from 7 to 134. From what I understand, these standards actually require testing of the end product as opposed to merely making sure no pesticides are used, etc. According to this China Daily article the result of the new EU regulations was that in 2001 tea exports from China to the EU dropped by 37%.
Another tea shop that actually tests every tea they sell is a German tea company (Tea Gschwender) which has a shop in Chicago that you can order from. I just tried something from there as well. They seem to be slow in stocking new Chinese greens and oolongs. (http://
I have to admit I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the US and other organic certifications really mean. I do find the concept of actually testing the tea easier to understand!
Good luck in you search for toxin-free tea. I'm doing the same.
I don't think there's a need to switch from non-organic to organic tea (Camellia Sinensis). Pollution in some of the Tea producing countries has become rampant due to recent economic booms while enviromental laws,unfortunately, have literally become un-enforceable. Organic teas are sold at a premium price but do not offer the "purity" you seek,unless you grow it yourself. Dominics response I believe covers this subject very clearly .Good Luck
That's quite correct. There are organic teas grown and produced in China. But don't fool yourself. Many places in China are heavily polluted. And pollution knows no borders. So, say your farm is organic, there is nothing you can do to prevent chemicals from rain leaching and accumulating in the soil; or chemicals in dust and residues blown in by the wind. Even if you grew tea yourself in China, there is nothing you can do to ensure it's 100% pure. There's only so much a person can do. In China, "clean and pure" just means, relatively speaking, as clean and pure as can be, giving the environmental circumstances of the country. So, farmers try to grow good tea as far as possible away from human settlement - up in some tea mountains somewhere. Then, the cheap tea they grow in gardens around their houses - and that stuff is polluted and contaminated like heck.
In China, there are no serious inspections to see such a thing done and any certification can be bought with the right amount of money or copied and printed. I had lunch with someone from the 'something something something something department of agriculture something something position in Guangdong' (the Chinese love their titles more than Westerners), and he avoided all conversation on this topic.
The closest thing to organic I've seen so far has been my good friend's relatives farm where they hand pick any insects out of their crops and use aphids. They have some excellently fresh veggies.
Tea. Drink at your own risk.
This brings up something I've been meaning to ask the group...if I wanted to take a sample of tea from my cupboard and get it analyzed for pesticides etc., how would I go aobut doing that? I imagine a lab, but what kind, how would I find one, and would they do such a thing for a member of the general public?
Melinda
Organic Certificates are being sold by these certifying agencies at diffrent price tags like - if you pay a very high fees - you are organic within 6 months, if the amount paid is lower - 15 months, if still lower than 24 months..... the story goes on.. bottomline is if you have cash you can become organic real quick otherwise dont even think or imagine getting a certificate... it just wont happen - no matter how good you are...
Organic Organic and Organic has just turned out to be a marketing gimmick. a small example - a big group in india buys several gardens as they switch from one trade to another and in a small time span all their gardens are certified organic ..... hey a land and a bush that were on chemicals for over 100 years suddenly becomes organic - 100% in 6 months or a year - is that possible? the answer friends lies with us.
I think that we should study the source that we buy from - by that i mean the manufacturing source and whenever we buy teas from our US wholeseller or retailer we should ask him to provide us with a pysiochemical certificate for the teas he is carrying. this certificate is provided by the lab, they provide details like the moisture content, the ash content, blah blah and the main part is that they provide the pesticide analysis (dicofol, ethion, quinolphos, fenzaquin, glyphospate, melathion, diazinon, fenamiphos, propargite) these are the common chemicals that the lab tests.. this certificate only costs 150 USD to 200 USD per tea. this will help the person market his teas better and he will also be able to make a loyal clientale for himself...
if the american tea association or any body can make a law that any person selling tea to US wholesellers, retailers or consumers has to provide this certificate for the tea he sells - i think our job in deciding which tea to drink will be easier, it will also make the manufacturers more conscious.
we have to make things more realistic and stop companies from taking advantage of this word organic, they are fooling consumers and charging a very high price for something that is actually not worth it.
if anyne wants to see a copy of the physiochemical certificate - please feel free to e-mail me and ask for one.
Yep. Just like ISO certs for factories here in China. You pay off the auditors, you get your ISO9000 or whatever you are going for.
Hmm.. what a fascinating discussion you have here.
To me, it really boils down to 2 things: how young is the tea shoots? Does your tea taste good?
As Dogma pointed out, tea plants accumulate minerals. When drinking white tea and green tea, the best guarantee is to drink from the youngest tea shoots - the first 10 days or so in Spring. They usually make the highest grade. They also contain the least environmental contaminants.
The best tea garden tends to use little pesticides. They just don't need it. These tend to be tea gardens situated at high altitude at sloping lands. The entire region tends to be prosperous tea growers (in China consisted of small tea gardens), situated away from factories and road traffics.
Their teas tend to be wholesaled at very high prices and not so commonly available in the West. I came across a few tea gardens and they hardly bother about organic labelling - Chinese market doesn't care that much when it comes to these very sought-after teas.
Organic labelling per se doesn't mean much.
Use of chemicals is not a viable long term strategy for the best tea gardens. If your tea tastes good, chances are it comes from a fertile tea garden with the right conditions that make overuse of chemicals unlikely.
Julian
I had a lot of Tie Guan Yin that tasted really good. Unfortunately, most of those flavors are unnatural additives. The "tea shoot" thing is mostly about green tea. What about Wulong?
This is the newest marketing idea in the tea trade that I fell for myself. "It's so high on the mountain, it doesn't need chemicals" or "the farmers are so poor, that they cannot afford pesticides" or "the most famous tea producing areas are more concerned about the tea being clean". It's mostly balderdash.
In China quantity = money, not quality.
These teas are not only "unavailable" in the West; a great percentage of Chinese never even SEE these teas. They are carted away for the royality and the uber-rich. The best green teas do come from the small countryside places. Most famous teas, like Longjing, are guaranteed to be dirty. See above about quality vs. quantity.
Most Chinese can't see in the long term and it is part of their culture. What is acquired today can be taken away tomorrow by the CCP or anyone else with a little power.
If your tea tastes good, it is likely it has a bunch of flavoring added. Nai Xiang? Guo (fruit) Xiang? Tell me which plant produces such flavors naturally.
Chinese farming methods are all over the place, and some of them are pretty nasty, yes.
If you drink tea from mainland China, it does not matter whether there is an organic label on it or not; you cannot really have any idea about pesticide contamination without actual measurement.
If this worries you, drink tea from Taiwan instead.
--scott
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