Yixing Hong Cha

Hi Ripon,

Not familiar, just musings to follow...

Big or small leaves?

How does it differ from Liu An? Also, could it be 'slightly' scented - like a very mild date tea?

Hi Ripon, if we are talking about he same tea, then you must got a very nice thing:)

Yixing is a city of Jiangsu province, used to be a county.

Actually Yixing only produce one kind of Hongcha, and it is called Yangxian Jinhao. Yangxian is the village name in the city/county and Jinhao means golden hair. It has been more than one thousand years since this tea was first appeared in history, and it was recommended by Lu Yu (the guy wrote the first tea bible, Cha Jing, in Tang Dynasty).

Sth I should say, it is believed that most tea are not supposed to be infused (properly) more than 7 times, for not everything out from the tea are good for your health; actually in Chinese language, chaye is the formal name for tea and leaves, although it is commonly considered as tea, for leaves is a much smaller group, that name suggest clearly that there are two class under that concept, tea for refreshment and leaves for healthy living... confused? I am, at least when I first heard of it. There are lots of chaye dosage for multiple infusion, by that I mean more than 7, and mostly that refers to leaves but not tea. Leaves and tea has lots in common, so people always confuse them.

Are you saying that hongcha was known as long ago as the time of Lu Yu? This doesn't sound like what I *thought* I knew about tea history.

/Lew

Dear DLG:

I don't know if we both are talking about the same tea. Few people know about famous Yixing Hong Cha. I think in some cases, I agree with you about infusion about 7 times.

I am waiting for another rare Yixing black tea, called- Zhu Hai Jin Ming. I have been told, this tea can be infused up to 20 times. Your thread was very interesting. Can you tell me more about your experience with Yixing Hong Cha please. Yes, this is an rare kind of tea- the taste is so different compare to other Chinese black teas. When I talk about Chinese tea, I try to avoid to talk about years. Many Chinese companies, even some books exaggerates about tea history. I am very near to collect a copy of Cha Jing(800 pages). I think, I will be much more clear about Chinese tea after reading this.

I really appreciate your input about this tea. Please be with us often if it is possible. I respect your view about teas. Thanks.

Ripon Vienna,VA

Hello Mr. Teas-:)

Big Souchong kind of leaves.

Liu An is one kind of Pu-Erh tea. Yixing had smooth taste but as Liu An but Liu An has some nutty flavor, Yixing doesn't have that. Yixing also has a slight smoky flavor. This Yixing is not a Pu-Erh tea at all. I never had any black tea like this. I am still working on it. I just have 2 tsp of this tea. I am going to sit with another tea taster and hope together we will be able to come to a conclusion. Thanks.

Ripon Vienna,VA

Ripon, do you have any research you can share that substantiates that Liu An is a Puer? It is my understanding that to be a Puer you must pass 2 tests, 1st leaf must be from Yunnan Large Leaf varieties tea trees, 2nd it is processed in the traditional methods of Xishuangbanna. Do you know how Liu An is processed? I don't think it is Yunnan Large Leaf?

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

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Dear Mike:

I am sorry for my statement. Liu An is not a Pu-Erh tea though it has been selling as Pu-Erh tea. This is basically a medicine from Guanxi province.

What makes authentic Pu-Erh tea is:

1)Natural sun dried green leaves is known as- Qingmao Cha or Saiqing Cha

2)Xishuanangbanna is the cultivation zone in Yunnan, included- Lancango, Menglien, Jinghong, Menghai and Mengla. Some broad Pu-erh tea leaves also comes from Fengpo, Jiangcheng etc etc thought they are also known as Pu-Erh tea leaves growing areas but officially this pl;aces tea leaves are not accepted. The leaves have to come from those five areas.

3)Only some certified tea masters and company are allowed to pluck real Pu-Erh tea leaves

4)The authentic processing has to be exactly the same as the processing they used to use during Han Dynasty(25-220 AD)

If any Pu-Erh tea can pass this four requirements, that is the real Pu-Erh tea.

Later the pile fermented black processed Pu-erh, introduced around

1950's is also officially certified as black processed Pu-Erh. But if you talk about Green processed Pu-Erh, we talk about the processing from Han Dynasty.

Ripon Vienna,VA

Yes, this is the Yunnan Large Leaf variety

Do you have any supporting documentation for this? This is something I new to me.

What is your reference here? I am curious as this is another concept that is new to me. I am familiar with many different "process recipes" that were used in the olden days, when all factories were run by the Government, and the "processes" were referenced by 4 digit numbers like 7592 or 7263 where the first 2 digits represent the year, the third digit represents the leaf grade, and the last digit represents the factory. These recipes were well documented and are often duplicated today, Hence a 7592 cake can be made in 2004 according to the original 1975 process, a little confusing but accurate.

Tell me more please..

Here I must disagree. I have dozens of documented sources in China that state that Black Puer was invented by the Yunnan Kunming tea factory in 1972, with the first trials occurring in 1973. Although I have recently uncovered documentation that alludes the "concept" was actually documented in the Guangdong Tea factory but the testing occurred in Kunming.

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

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Dear Mike:

While I was in Bangladesh, I had a Chinese tea friend who used to work in the Chinese Embassy. Once he organized this small tea fair- Videos, tea tasting session and two tea masters came from China. All my information are from them. About verification- Joshua from Rishi tea recently visited Yunnan and he also agreed with this information. We all have many confusion that's why me, you and Michael are planning to go to China. I think, time came for us to go their and find the real fact about Chinese teas. Your 7592 numbering thing is very true and unfortunately this is also true- numbering doesn't matter anymore. The most important thing is- how can we collect from a honest seller and it is possible to collect real aged Pu-Erh. My upcoming Chinese trip is very much important not for authentication, it is very important for my own knowledge.

According to our conversation over the phone, I am working on your processing method. My business is taking away most of my time. Thanks.

Ripon Vienna,VA

Hi guys,

I *am* planning a trip to China during 2005, but alas I don't expect to find there the real facts about Chinese tea. I don't say this lightly. I am a great believer in the ideas put forward by Thomas Kuhn -- I know he's gotten bad press of late -- and others, that "truth" breaks down and "change" occurs at the fringes, which for us means outside China. Also, when it comes to defining "facts," hats off to Durkheim. It was Durk, wasn't it?

Michael Playing fast and loose with fact and truth Reinventing gungfu Drinking cold brewed Tie Guan Yin from a jar

BTW, Ripon, when are you heading off for China? How long are you staying? Where in China do you plan to go?

snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com7/7/04

00: snipped-for-privacy@dhaka.net

Could you write a little more about these "process recipes"? I've got a 7542 Meng Hai beeng and I'm wondering whether a high value 3rd digit implies better or worse quality. I've posted a review of this cake on Teamail if you're interested.

Cameron

On 8 Jul 2004 14:02:29 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@mailandnews.com (Cameron Lewis) cast caution to the wind and posted:

75 means the "first" time they made tea with this process was in 1975. 4 means grade 4 tea leaf. 2 means it was from Factory #2 which is Meng Hai Tea Factory

The third digit represents the leaf grade on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being the highest, thus a 4 is a higher grade than say an 8. However, it does not necessarily mean that the grade 4 is "better" than the grade 8. What this numbering system does not tell you is the source of the leaf. For example many people might prefer a grade 8 leaf from ancient wild trees on Yi Wu mountain over a grade 4 leaf from Nannao Mountain.

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

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