Insanity of the wine industry

"jcoulter" skrev i meddelandet news:Xns94C3A26D5C196225stellar@216.196.97.136...

There are some temptations one should perhaps better not fall for[1]; howvere, my maternal grandfather always said that you should ... always ... fall or something ... Question: How on Earth can you be both a liberal and a socialist? That is truly the work of a deranged mind (and I am speaking as a professional, mind you).

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Hi everyone! Remember me, I'm the one struggling with French wine in preparation for her trip to South of France/Provence this summer (and of course for general enlightenment as well)? You were all so kind to me. :) Anyhow, I still read all your postings everyday, even though I haven't contributed in a while. I loved this thread, informative, amusing, (albeit occasionally uncomfortable given my basically nonconfrontational nature.) Anyway, I have a question regarding the use of the "Troll" term. I'm not an idiot, I certainly get the gist of it, but can you explain to me its exact usage in the NG?

Regards, Cherie

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" wrote in news:kJXcc.89010$ snipped-for-privacy@newsc.telia.net:

...

Easy move to AmeriKa where everything left of the right side of center is considered all one big mass of indistinguishable political entities (note this includes the center itself!)

And just think: you could sample the local (well, sorta) delicacies. Velveeta, Twinkies, CheezWhiz, Wonder Bread...

...no, we'd be better off holding the event in C'ville and providing a further excuse to return. Plus I know far more foodies down there.

Ah, to dream.

Ewan

Ah, but my dear nordic friend, the word liberal has different meanings depending on whether you are in North America or Europe.

In the US, a liberal is a knee-jerking leftie, not the fashion these days, never was really, Washington still has his phone wiretapped since the 50s, most people still want to shoot him, so he keeps a low profile, pretends to be a republican or moves to Canada. Drinks good zinfandel or french wine.

In Canada, a liberal votes for the socialized party that usually runs the country and makes Canada such a pleasant gentle decent civilized friendly place to live. His ideas are the same as US liberals, but in Canada he is in the mainstream. It's cold though, so he feels like moving to California. When the Canadian dollar is high, he complains. When it is low, he also complains. Drinks whatever he can afford at the prohibitively priced provincial monopoly stores, or drives to New Hampshire for deals on good zinfandel and french wines.

In Europe, a liberal is someone with a rabid fear of communists, even though there are none left. He evades taxes and judges everything in terms of dollars. Not Euros. When the Euro is high, he complains. When the Euro is low, he also complains. He likes the idea of going to war, but has enough connections to make sure that neither he nor his friends or family need to go. Knows nothing about wine, buys top flight Bordeaux to impress people.

:-)))

Nils, aren't you supposed to be on the way to southern France by now? We have a Slow Food event every weekend in may-june-july.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Bonjour, Cherie! "Troll" is a time-honored USEnet term, referring to someone who purposefully attempts to "stir the pot" in a newsgroup with inflammatory and/or insulting posts. Many other newsgroups have quite regular trolling, though this one thankfully has been reasonably troll-free. In truth, the term "troll" is a neologism, derived from the action of "trolling" for a reponse -- an activity that dates back to the dawn of the Internet.

HTH Mark Lipton

Agreed, Anyone who supports a large "Nanny Government" and is anti-free markets is considered in the USA to be leftest/democrats/liberals/socialist. How far

Thanks for the post. I thought it was the little Troll dolls with long hair that my sister played with years ago.

Now I have the facts!!!! :-)

Salut/Hi Cherie,

le/on Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:28:20 -0400, tu disais/you said:-

Yup!

A Troll is someone who posts with the express intent of stirring up discord and annoyance. They often crosspost to antagonistic newsgroups with the intention of creating a row. In the case of Vincent, he's made a lot of contentious posts, thrown around accusations of a variety of failings, and talked a great deal of nonsense to boot. I'd not define him as a classic Troll, but he's close enough for government contract. Trolls were mischievous spirits in Norse mythology iirc and of course there's the fishing term of "trolling" where you trail a lure through the water and the hopes of getting a "bite". I think this is probably the right explanation of the use of the term on the Usenet.

Salut/Hi Ewan McNay,

le/on Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:50:28 -0400, tu disais/you said:-

I'd be delighted to. What part of CT are you in? Jacquie & I shall probably be in the Berkshires, which aren't too far from CT, looking at fall colours in mid October.

Unfortunatly in this forum it means:

"Troll" is a time-honored USEnet term, referring to someone who purposefully attempts to "stir the pot" in order to provide a thought provoking discussion. When we do not want to hear what a person has to say and when a person says something that contradicts what we believe it is necessary to discredit that person by claiming he is a "troll". In our opinion, once a person is accused of being a troll, nothing they say should be considered accurate, especially if it contradicts our communal knowledge base. It is OK to insult and talk down to these trolls as if they are a lower form of life or an "animal". Never confront or debate with a troll because the troll may tell you something that you dont want to hear. If we ignore the troll and deny his thinking he may just go away when he realizes that we are "all knowledgable" and dont want anyone to "stir the pot".

Have never seen a thread go this long. ;-)

Larry Southern Ontario

I always picture a little evil thing living under the bridge in, is it, Billy Goat's Gruff??? It's been a long, long time, and I'm not even sure what that is, (a movie? a book?). I just extracted it from the recesses of my brain and it was rather painful. Anyway, thank you Mark, now it all makes (more) sense. And I am declining to respond to the OTHER definition posted below because frankly, it appears to be kind of, well, trollish...

No matter that we can not specifically point out these failings.

Nor can we explain where he doesnt make sense

has certainly said some things that do not want to hear because if they were true, we would be wrong,, and you know that we are never wrong.

That is because the topic is interesting and contains some different perspectives. Unfortunatly,, I am a troll, so no one is allowed to discuss wine with me anymore, causing me to get bored and leave this group for good, in its bliss of likemindedness.

That is ridiculous. No one here is asking you to leave. I think your introduction to the group was a bit inflammatory but it has been a good thread. No a GREAT thread. One of the longest in alt.food.wine history.

Hang around and I am sure that over time you will learn that there are good/great contributors here.

Example:

-M. Pronay is a Sommelier in Vienna, Austria.

-Ian Hoare a Chef from Europe that not owns a small B & B in his semi retirement

-Mark Lipton is a professor of chemistry at Purdue

-M. Tommassi from France, involved in the Slowfoods movement

-Bill Spoon in Canada always tempting us with great tasting notes.

-I am simply a wine lover and no winemaking or chemistry background.

and on and on....they have a great knowledge base and I am sure they would appreciate your comments and your continued postings. They are not going to roll over either. If you seek an intellectual and non political wine group discussion this is a great group.

Even though you are "troll like" if you hang in here and contribute to the group your posts will be accepted in the manner you likely intended. Inflamatory or not inflammatory--depending upon how you write and want to be understood

Regards.

Correction: He is the foremost wine critic of Austria (and a *former* sommelier) and an authority par excellence on wine from many regions.

Amen, Dick! ;-)

Mark lipton

Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

le/on Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:50:52 +0200, tu disais/you said:-

Well, I could hardly use the intimate "tu" form, could I?

Red, of course. To match his face.

Salut/Hi Mark Lipton,

le/on Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:08:13 -0500, tu disais/you said:-

I've just had a long thread elsewhere about Bouillabaisse and what differentiates it from other fish soup/stews from the region, and why a dish served in NY made from nothing but shellfish (except for Tilapia fillets!!) and served without broth was only named bouillabaisse because the chef concerned wanted to be able to charge more than he would have had he simply called it - more correctly "My New England shellfish stew".

In a sense, yes, though there's a very serious side to this. It's hard enough to persuade the French that anyone outside "the hexagon" makes wines worth treating seriously. So when THE leading wine taster of the country starts denigrating an entire foreign wine type, it's bad enough, but when it's on a false premise it's unforgiveable.

have induced in Ian. It's a

My aorta was saved by the 5 glasses of excellent sweet wines we had in front of us at the time! It was a fascinating workshop, and although I've held forth about my little contretemps with our friend, it didn't diminish either my pleasure in judging the matches, not at discovering some gorgeous wines.