Insanity of the wine industry

Nice, you troll,, Didnt your mama teach you any manners.

You are so clueless.

You know so little about winemaking you cant even distinguish the difference between a "troll" and someone who has fermented over a million gallons of wine. You are truely a pathetic poser in the wine industry.

Sulfite addition isn't used for cleaning barrels. These days we use hot water to knock out the tartrates, followed by a rinse with ozonated water to sterilize. The barrel is then drained, gassed with SO2 and bunged tight to prevent anything the ozone missed from growing in it. Before reuse, it is rinsed with cold water to wash out the excess SO2.

Tom S

Vincent, that is only when Republicans are for Free Trade and against tarriffs.

Remember today both parties are simply oposition parties. What ever one party is for the other opposes.

"Vincent Vega" wrote in news:8Dbdc.9041$ snipped-for-privacy@nwrdny01.gnilink.net:

There is no reason why one can't be a troll and have a million or so gallons of wine in their past. Indeed there is some evidence recently on this group that tends to prove the point!

So with your experience what are your opinions on say the cork vs stelvin arguments. Do you favor one or the other? Can wines in Stelvin closures age gracefully? or is the whole cork thing more a case of poor winemaking?

You only started receiving flames in return because you came from your corner first swinging at _everyone_. Don't try to play innocent now. It's too late for that.

Jeez, where's that nice Mr. Stonefeel been lately? ;^)

Tom S

Salut/Hi Tom S,

le/on Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:48:59 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

they add SO2

This is ludicrous. SO2 is SO2 whether added to sterilise the barrel or preserve the wine. I simply don't believe that serious wine makers seek to hide the fact that they're adding SO2. I challenge you, Vincent give TWO names of serious winemakers who deny adding SO2. If you won't or can't, you join the other wankers in my kill file.

Yup, but it has several drawbacks. 1. sometimes flaming molten sulphur can drop down to the bottom of the barrel, and the flame may just go out before all the sulphur has burnt. You then have a risk that all those lovely sulphides that Bill Loftin was talking about could form and sopil the wine.

1. It's an unpleasant and messy job.
2. It's impossible to dose very accurately, as you say.

same thing.

And with the acidity always present in the wine the metabisulphite converts to sulphite ions very efficiently and both sterilises the barrel and helps protect the wine against unwanted oxidation.

[] ] Jeez, where's that nice Mr. Stonefeel been lately? ;^) ] []

LOL. And that's the first time in this whole godforsaken, troll-ridden thread! :)

Can't we just end this now? This _is_ one of the most civilized corners of usenet, perhaps we can just keep it that way by killfiling this loser?

-E

Well down to the South of us, the ex-colonial neighbours call them lawyers, or more often attorneys.

We are technically barristers and solicitors and use those terms in Canada, although we do not have a traditionally divided bar, and can all appear in court (unlike Rumpole, although the division has been lessened recently even in Britain).

You may refer to me as B, S &T (barrister, solicitor and trencherman).

? Who told you that? The democrats are clearly against any policy of the republicans. Today,, what is good for the country and good for the Bush administration is considered bad to the democrats. But it isnt a two way street. Clinton proposed welfare reform and got overwhelming support from the Republicans,, He proposed a balance budget amendment which was supported mosty by republicans. Liberals are simply anti-republican. Conservatives have very solid principles.

Thats a hard question to answer considering the fact that there isnt much history to go by. (I dont know too many quality wines with screwcaps that have been aged for 10 or 15 years) Synthetics and screwcaps accomplish the same thing, - a perfect seal. Cork sometimes provide a perfect seal and sometimes allow mild oxidation and more than often introduce unwanted micro-organisms. An argument can be made that corks allow oxygen to pass through them into the wine creating a positive mild oxydation. I see no evidence of this. If a winemaker wants mild oxidation than it should be done in the barrel. A wine doesnt need additional oxygen to develop and to age in the bottle.

Considering the fact that cork is becomming more expensive, quality is going down and wine consuption is going up,, you are sure to see the industry move towards synthetics. I still use cork. The only reason I do is because of botteling issues,, not because I think the quality of wine will be effected.

Again,, tell me who I insulted and I will appoligize. Calling me names and making fun of me is just childish.

It is certainly the trend in California. Please stop calling me names.

are you going to tell me what is innacurate and doesnt make sense or are you just going to generalize? Show me a must at 26 brix that doesnt need an acid addition and I might believe you. I have never seen one and I have years of experience in the US. I admit I have no first hand knowledge of French must but biology works the same in Europe as it does here. Claiming that I am wrong may sound good to the regulars here but it isnt very convincing to me. Tell me you are a French wine maker with years of experience with high brix must and I will retact my statement and stand corrected. Tell me you read in a book that high acid must dont require acid additions and I will call you mislead.

Second part of your comment: As sugar rises, TA decreases and PH rises. TA and PH are not always linear but are close enough to generalize. When a grape gets to 26 brix,, the PH will most likely be well above 3.6,, thus making an unstable wine. If no sulfites are added,, this wine will oxidize in a relatively short period of time. Im not sure what you are disputing.

Please tell me how you know this? Does everyone here take your word as fact or do you have hands on experience in these matters? Let me ask you this. A Rielsing is 13% alcohol and has a residual sugar of

2%. That means the grape needed to be harvested above 25-26 brix, to get these numbers. And in Germany, Im assuming the grapes had to hang a really long time to get this high so you know the PH is through the roof. We all know that sugar masks acidity. Therefore a wine with with residual sugar will taste less acidic. How is it possible to have a well balanced wine that is sweet,, with no acidity? And, lol, on top of that,, you have the wine bottled with a high PH, no sulfite added, no potassium sorbate, with residual sugar for yeast and bacteria to feast on.

I dont think it is possible. But that is just my first hand experience. Please,, explain to me how this can be done if you know what you are talking about. I really want you to address the stability issue.

sorry,, its u people who are jumping.

"Vincent Vega" wrote in news:6Qcdc.2930$ snipped-for-privacy@nwrdny02.gnilink.net:

gen to develop and to age in the

Thank you.

Salut/Hi Tom S,

le/on Thu, 08 Apr 2004 01:58:06 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

In other words "everyone's out of step except our Johnny."

Somewhat? SOMEWHAT??? Tom, I've not known you as the master of the understated murmur!

Chuckle....

No trumps.

I think we've just about got him in a hexagon squeeze.

Expanding upon the definitions provided to me by Mark and Ian, it seems to me that the ultimate goal of a true Troll is to be the center of attention. If Mr. Vega is a Troll, he certainly is a successful one! Just a thought...

-Cherie

that they add SO2

Ian,, Obviously you havent read anything I posted. I have never met a winemaker that claims they dont add sulfite. The people in the forum who are attacking me claim that France and other parts of the world dont add sulfite. You should address your question to them.

I have met with dozens of people who have visited the French wineries and all of them have told me that the French claim not to add sulfites.

In response to your challenge,, you are too late. I already challenged this newsgroup to contact French wineries (as an American) and ask them about sulfites. This was about the time I started to be called a troll.

If people here cant answer your question than you are going to have alot of people to put in your /kill file.

accomplishes the same thing.

"Vincent Vega" wrote in news:hEddc.3071$ snipped-for-privacy@nwrdny02.gnilink.net:

It has been my experience with this and other threads that there is no disagreement at all on the use of SO2. the disagreements are with the univeral statements about acid addition. You seem to come from a place where sugar levels are normally high so sugar addition soens't seem to be an issue.

For what it is worth it is a matter of tone not disagreement that has rasied the collective ire of the group.

J Coulter

good

the disagreements are with the

So are you claiming that German rieslings have sugar added to them? I didnt dare want to make such an accusation for fear of being called troll once again. You are starting to impress me j coulter. Lets see where you go with this.