Insanity of the wine industry

what did you mean by

"so sugar addition soens't seem to be an issue"

I am not sure if you read my reply to Ian's post,, It is below. If I am wrong about acid additions than someone should be able to answer my concerns. So far,, no one has been able to do so.

are you going to tell me what is innacurate and doesnt make sense or are you just going to generalize? Show me a must at 26 brix that doesnt need an acid addition and I might believe you. I have never seen one and I have years of experience in the US. I admit I have no first hand knowledge of French must but biology works the same in Europe as it does here. Claiming that I am wrong may sound good to the regulars here but it isnt very convincing to me. Tell me you are a French wine maker with years of experience with high brix must and I will retact my statement and stand corrected. Tell me you read in a book that high acid must dont require acid additions and I will call you mislead.

Second part of your comment: As sugar rises, TA decreases and PH rises. TA and PH are not always linear but are close enough to generalize. When a grape gets to 26 brix,, the PH will most likely be well above 3.6,, thus making an unstable wine. If no sulfites are added,, this wine will oxidize in a relatively short period of time. Im not sure what you are disputing.

"Bill Spohn" in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m21.aol.com...

I thought you might appreciate the selection I quoted, from surely the best-known wine-related story in US literature, turning on a family motto related to the good one that came up in this thread.

(The story, moreover, is adequately obsessive, macabre, full of obvious double meanings, and lifestyles-of-the-rich-and-famous pretentious -- another specialty of that author -- to assure longevity.)

"Vincent Vega" wrote in news:%xedc.21$ snipped-for-privacy@nwrdny01.gnilink.net:

I only indicated that you seem to come from a high sugar area, nothing more nothing less no disagreement at all. That you could take offense at this is part of the communication problem that we are having. I in fact am a novice who loves wines and hearing about the ones that my budget won't allow, I would never dream of correcting anyone's notions on how to make wine other than to state what doesn't work for my particular palate (heavily oaked chards being a prime example and Petit Syrah on every occassion that I have tried them)

I did, Max - a favourite story of mine.

My wife once locked me in a closet by accident and to this day will repeat my cry for release - "For the love of God, Montresor!", and laughs whenever she hears it.

As we are talking about wine stories, I find Roald Dahl a wry writer, and his "A Matter of Taste" is (IMHO anyway) a minor masterpiece - do you know it?

Well,, regardless of if you are a novice or not. Your comment made much sense. The other scenario regarding the acidity is that the German Rieslings never reach 26 brix,, If we agreed on this than this debate could be ended.

Ewan, I'll probably be speaking at Yale in the next 12 months or so. I do actually know quite a number of their faculty quite well. I'll give you a heads up beforehand if you wish...

Lipton the lauded

German or Austrian Riesling TBA is MINIMUM 36 Brix. Needs no added acid.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

I'm not Max, but I love that story. I think of it every time at a blind tasting I find myself trying to catch a glimpse of the cork, or looking where the cover is loose :) Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Ewan, I'd be cautious re this. I've heard Mark's penchant for Purdue Fizz is well-known, and there might be guilt-by-association. :)

Seriously Mark, if you go to Yale, isn't it easier to fly into NYC and rent a car? Plan an extra night and there'd be time for an offline.

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Earlier I said I was going to withdraw from this thread, but I simply couldn't let the above statements go unchallenged. The numbers quoted are fairly typical for a Columbia Valley (Washington State, USA) Johannisberg Riesling. Keep in mind that vineyards there are about 46 degrees N, compared with about 50 in, say, the Mosel. Thus grapes ripen in the former with a much higher sugar level than in the latter. (I'm not claiming either is better than the other; just that they are different.) While I don't doubt that acid is sometimes added to such wines, I can state categorically that sometimes it is not. As far as firm figures as to how often it is done versus how often it is not, I have no clue and doubt that anyone else does either. But my point is that it is not ALWAYS necessary as has been claimed here.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

True. I don't have tenure, so the problems are much greater; but I think the Ivy League's tendency to ignore non--Ivy behaviour probably covers this :).

But that'd be *much* more work for me... (actually, that's almost certainly the case regardless - Tweed airport has only two flights each day, both to Hartford, or something)

For my part, I think of Dorothy Sayers' "The Bibulous Business of a Matter of Taste," another very amusing short story.

Mark Lipton

Ah, now you're just being Wimseycal......

To put things into the right perspective: I am 50, my first academic degree was a master in economics (mag.rer.soc.oec.,

1976), the second a doctorate in law (dr.iur., 1981); my sommelier career dates from 1984/85, and since 1988 I am a full-time wine writer.

M.

No, I'm not. (But maybe I'm the only one with a little knowledge of a few foreign languages.)

An "ambulant wine encyclopedia" I once was called, but that refers to times long gone. The older I am getting, the more I prefer a glass in my hand ... ;-)

M.

;-)

M.

Of course not. In our noble sweet wines (botrytised, straw wine and icewines) there's no need at all to add acidity.

M.

My laugh for the day, Ian! :^D

??? _Is_ there actually such a play? First I've heard of it.

The OT part: I wonder how many here are acquainted with the exploits of the Hideous Hog, from the late Victor Mollo's "Bridge in the Menagerie" series of stories? I know that Ian and I are, as we've discussed this topic before. Food and wine are usually part of the scene during the postgame discussions, which describe in hilarious detail the gaffes and foibles at the card table of various denizens of the local bridge club. Often the Hog sketches a hand diagram on a napkin while draining someone else's glass of wine. It makes for great reading if you're into contract bridge.

Tom S

Well, yes - see e.g.

- but the added value to your average bridge game is likely to be fairly modest from such knowledge :).

Sure; I enjoy David Bird's stuff in similar vein also.