Alcohol Content

Jerry

Comments interspersed:

For the great majority of winemakers, this is a need, not a want.

For those that use SG readings, such numbers and examples_are_ relevant.

I am fully aware that this methodology is often used. Mostly by those that work with fresh grapes. I have often said in this group that all calculations are "fixed to the BRIX". And this is true no matter which approach is adopted.

And I would recommend that each individual be allowed to choose whichever methodology they feel best suites their needs.

And so would I. It is_you_that assume I was speaking in absolutes, in spite of the fact that I told you that I was not.

The original question posed in this thread was what number he should put on his label. The answers he received ranged from 12.1 to 15.3409. The discussion then turned to the formulas found in various references. It's pretty hard to discuss_formulas_without using numbers and examples !!

And so would we all, _if_ we were dealing only with fresh grapes. Our blackberries never get to 22 BRIX and neither do our rose petals. Thus, we are forced to "create" our own musts, and things like sugar/alcohol management assume a much greater importance for anyone that moves beyond kits and recipes and begins to "design" their own ferments.

I agree. And I think it is incredibly arrogant of you to continue to insist that this is what I was doing even after I explained that this was not the case. It was not then, it is not now, nor will it _ever_ be.

I think we can agree on one thing. It is long past time that we put an end to this so the group can get back to it's usual high level of decorum. I offered to withdraw from the discussion in this thread if you provided answers. And, being a man of my word, I will do so now. I might suggest that you answer the original poster's question, but that, of course, as always, is entirely up to you.

Frederick

Just my to put my two cents into this spirited debate.

I have been making wine for over 35 years now. Several years ago I discovered the advantages of a refractometer. I believe this is a more direct method of measuring the sugar content. I do not know of fruit growers who depend on a hydrometer to determine sugar content. They use a refractometer.

Now, I never depend on the hydrometer for starting numbers. I only use the hydrometer to check on the progress of fermentation and to determine if it is complete. In my opinion the beginning BRIX will give a better estimate of the POTENTIAL ABV.

In my opinion it is not all that important if the finished wine is 12% ABV or 13% ABV I am more interested in taste and balance. In my opinion the beginning BRIX will give a better ESTIMATE of the POTENTIAL ABV.

I have designed recipes using the refractometer. One can get the sugar content of any fruit with a refractometer. I would not depend on a hydrometer for this purpose - nor do fruit growers.

Of course if one is dealing with other than pressed juice or liquids only, then one must estimate the final yield of liquid juice. This is true regardless of whether one is using a hydrometer or a refractometer. A hydrometer will not tell you how much juice is going to be extracted during the fermentation process. A refractometer will not tell you this either but it WILL tell you a more precise value for the sugar content of the fruit. Hopefully you will keep track of my much water you use in your recipe and then at pressing you will know the volume of juice plus water and be able to back calculate and tell how much juice was extracted. You can then go back and make adjustments by either adding more sugar or using a bit more water if necessary.

I believe that if one is hung up on the ABV of the final product - Send it out to a lab.

If one is a beginner or can not afford a refractometer my advise is to just be content to use ball park numbers and estimates based on the hydrometer. In the long term it is not going to be that critical if other things are in balance.

May I ask whether you make any deductions for TA and other non-sugar solids or just take the readings of the refractometer as fermentable sugar? I am considering to buy a refractometer, because I am beginning to get fed up with the unreliable readings of the hydrometer.

Ed

"Paul E. Lehmann" schreef >

No, I do not make any deductions for TA and other non-sugar solids from the refractometer readings as I believe this to be insignificant. I do, however measure pH - especially with reds and TA and pH with whites but I do not use this information to adjust the refractometer readings.

I believe some winemakers tend to "Over Science" winemaking. Most of the time getting in the right ball park is close enough. There are SO MANY variables in Organic Chemistry - which is what wine making is all about - that it is nearly impossible to compensate and or measure all the variables. I am not saying that it is wrong to understand what you are doing but there comes a point in which further knowledge does not necessarily yield better results.

"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote

You said a mouthful. I have a bag in my supply bucket just for all the little bottles of this and that that I never ever use, but can't bring myself to throw out! LOL! Bob<