While this isn't technically about winemaking, all of us have to store and age our wine, at one time or another, so I figured this question would still be appropriate here.
I was wondering what all must be addressed in building yourself a wine cellar. Not talking about the choosing of wines, or where to purchase them, or anything like that, but the actual cellar itself. What concerns must be addressed in regards to temperature, humidity, etc.
One specific question right now is as to why it must have a controlled higher humidity? Is this just to keep the corks moist, or is there some other reason too? Also, how does using synthetic corks change these needs?
Any input on this subject, or pointing me to proper place to look, would be greatly appreciated. Didn't notice anything on wine storage in all the old messages I'd read back through, so have some hesitation about posting this here, but at the worst, you just tell me to shut up and go somewhere else with this question, which is fine. :)
My own belief is that temperature contol is the most important. The debate about corks and other closures is much more difficult! But, that being said, if you have a "real cellar" underground then temperature changes are so much slower and the wine is so much happier with that sort of regime. One can obviously build and maintain a strictly temperature controlled cellar but that is not at all necesary.
About 35 year ago I had a pub in Somerset in England. My cellar was quite small for a pub but it had a small stream -- well a spring higher up in the garden, which ran through my celllar all year round. In hot summers I could guarrentee that my draught beer would be the coolest in the village and the taps in th ebar woul "frost" up without any artificial cooling. My quite small stock of wines was stored there also and I never had problems with them. The rreal problem with aging is not quite all a matter of the actual temperature but rather a wide fluctuation in tempersature. Of couse one can add humity control and if you are maintaining artificial temperature control then you must similarly maintain humidity control as well. But temperature control by natural means is ( IMHO) a n inexpensive and probably the best way off doing it. When you look how long wine has been made then you must believe in natural processes and storage.
Actually it's a high horse I absolutely agree with. Would love to have an underground cellar, just really not an option in this area(t least not unless you go at axtravagant cost, and even then, VERY likely to flood). Here in Oklahoma City area the "dirt" is all just red clay. so no drainage away from anything, and hideous to dig in. so you'd pay a huge amount to get it dug, and then have to deal with lack of any drainage.
I'm really just kind of thinking ahead here, for now, living in an apartment, I'm just goign to have to have wineracks out in the apartment. Deifnitely not optimal, but it's only option for now(don't have room in any of the closets to setup a little "cellar"). When I buy a house ~3 years from now though, hoping to take one bedroom with walk-in closet(which I may have to build, but easy enough to frame out and build something like that), and convert the closet into a small wine cellar with a breezaire or similar unit. Obviously, lots of research time in the next 3 years, for things such as particular unit, etc, jsut trying to get a more general idea of the basic ideas of wine storage.
I definitely agree that natural, preferably underground, would be the optimum. In hosue growing up, my bedroom was in the basement, and was always the most stable temperature wise throughout the year, so I've learned well that natural environment control can be the best, particularly when you factor in the savings.
Thanks for the input. Would have loved to see that cellar. Course, predates my birth by 10 years, and is on other side of the pond, but that's not the point. :)
I also have a huge "cellar" problem. I now live in a small flat ( apartment -- of 1 bedroom, one sitting room and kitchen and bathroom.). I bulk age all my wines in my perpetually darkened bedroom to ease the problem of temperature variation and I have a small pantry which backs on to an internal "lobby" which contains a reservoir of cooler air in summer and warmer air in winter. I keep about 140 bottles of wine in there quite successfully. Not ideal conditions compared with my last house where I had a large understairs "cellar" which was more or less at the right temperature ( ie slow to change) all year round. There is normally no need for air conditioning in this part of UK and it would be an expensive option.. We all try our best to minimise all sort of changes !
I agree that temperature is by far the most important.
In my case, I lucked into buying a house with a walk-in fridge (the previous owner was a hunter who owned a refrigeration company - how lucky for me!). I ran into problems with humidity and vibration, as the cooling unit hangs inside the fridge and the fans run constantly. The walls vibrate when the unit ran, and since I was only running the cooler down to 55-60F, the unit didn't get enough condensation to drain out the humidity, leading to an unexpected mold outbreak on the outside of my corks. I found racks that I could free-stand to avoid the vibrations. But for humidity control, I now use a container of "Damp-Rid", which condenses humidity and catches it in a little cup. I'm not measuring humidity, but I can tell you that the whole mold problem is gone. Found it at a big box home-interiors store.
Your pub cellar sounds great! If you don't mind my asking, how did you keep molds and mildew from springing up in the cellar? I'd like to put a wine cellar in my cellar (yes, real in-the-ground, dirt floor in portions), but it's quite musty down there. Any tips?
Though I might have one possibility here, will see in a few years when I buy a house. But when I do, being in Oklahoma, good chance taht I will have a tornado shelter. WIll keep a thermometer in there, but if the temperature is good down there, may use it as a wine cellar. :)
A bit OT Ah -- the floor of the cellar was not a dirt one but part "concrete" and part ancient stone slabs ( the pub had originally been built in the mid 17th century) . The v small stream ran in a channel made up from shaped stone pieces. As for cleanliness it was important to keep the cellar clean and it was washed down at least weekly by cold water under pressure -- that is all the walls and the floor. It was very easy to detect unwashed spills by my nose! Inevitably the cellar smelled of beer and CO2 but "off smells" were instaantly detected any time I went in the cellar -- which was at least twice a day. Also the hot water/special detergent mixture that I used to clean all the beer pipes once every week ( always on a Friday afternoon) was pour over the floor of the cellar when I was finished with it. Since all my beers were "cask conditioned" it was essential to keep the cellar clean and any spillages made when tapping a new barrel were washed away immediately. As I remember I had 3 different types of draught bitter, and 1 "mild" ( a dark beer). The draught lager and the Guinness I sold were my only preconditioned beers that came in special "kegs" and needed CO2 pressure to feed to the bar.
I imagine a tornado shelter is perfect. You're really looking for consistency in temperature, or at least very slow changes in temperature. Assuming the whole thing has enough of an earthen/cement roof to not have temperature swings during each day, you're in business. I'd consider insulating the doors, though.
Light. Ultriaviolet light ages wine prematurely. Especially reds. That includes incandescent light bulbs. Keep it as dark as possible. Some wine storage rooms have florescent light without UV.
Temperature. The best temperature to store reds and whites togeter is
54 - 57 F. If the temperture gets lower, some precipitation can occur and form a sediment. not a bad sediment, but still...sediment. Temperatures higher than 57 aren't a sin, until it gets up around 68, especially for reds. then you have premature ageing. Temperatures that fluctuate up and down also prematurely age wine. Wine is a living thing. If it is always adjusting to rising a lowering temps it just gets tired and gives up.
Humidity. If your humidity is higher than 65% the corks can begin to get soft and labels will also get soggy and peal off. Also, mold is a big factor. If the humidity is lower than 50%, the opposite will happen, your corks will dry out and wine will seep, thus, oxidation.
Vibration. Keep your wine free of traffic areas, like under stairs or beside anything that makes noise or vibrates. Refrigerators etc. Wines stored in coolers usually have a vibration free unit.
Other than that, store your whites on the bottom and reds on the top. Store your longest ageing wines at the back and your early drinkers at the front (that's if your cellar is a walk in).
You probably know all the above, already, but that's the basics. If you're building a unit, you'll need insulation, of course, and if it's not a naturally stable temperature, you might need a cooling unit that exhausts warm air into another room, or to the outside.
I actually did not know all that, and that was a greatpost, thank you. Covered all the major points(at least that I can think of) of what I might need to know simply and quickly. Thank you very much Jeff. Will probably print this out and save it(as I said, be a couple of years at least before I get to do this the way I want). Thanks again to everyone for their input.
Pinky wrote "Since all my beers were "cask conditioned" it was essential to keep the
Trevor - I've made ales for years but have always bottled with some sugar to carbonate. I've read with interest about cask conditioned ales in which no carbon dioxide was used to fill the void as the ale was drawn from the keg. This of course exposes the ale to air and subsequent oxidation. I imagine it took some good planning to keep the beer fresh. How long did it usually take to empty a cask of ale in your pub. Am I correct that serving real cask conditioned ale is becoming a lost art in the UK? I keep trying to brew a proper Mild but mine continue to be thin bodied...any pointers? Thanks.
Sorry to everyone else but this is about beer and not wine!!!
Bill It is a long time ago and I cannot pretend to be the expert that I was in
1974!
First of all the art of cask conditioned beer is certainly not a dying art. Indeed many "free houses" ( i.e privately owned pubs) make their own range of draught beers.
I cannot now actually remember but it was obviously important that the cask, once tapped and spiled ( a spile is a pourous wooden peg which allows air to enter the cask - slowly_ as the beer is drawn off and is also a part of the final conditoning). Thinking back I would expect my 18 gal ( imp) Kilderkins to be on service for not more than about 2 days maximum. But I could protect them a bit as well and I certainly remember that on a slow moving barrel I would squirt some CO2 into the barrel at the end of the evening before putting a hard spile (ie non pourous) into the barrel for overnighting ( I had a couple of CO2 cylinders for my lager "keg"beer). The importance was that I was serving a "live beer" which would continue to be in condition until the last pint was drawn off . At weekends when the beer was moving much faster I could filter of the "ends" of a barrel and carefully feed it into the new one -- bu this took a keen nose and sense of taste to ensure the "old beer" was still in good condition. I certainly did not run an old fashioned "feedback" s ystem where the spillage from the hand pumps was fed back into the "mild" barrel.
I also startled the villagers in Somerset in 1971 when every new order was serverd in a clean glass. And I never pulled a pint that washed my taps in the newly pulled pint ( ie I didn't let my beer taps dip into the beer filling the glass.
There was a lot of resistance to the "clean glass " policy when I first started but within 6 months it worked well and apart from the fact that all my draught beers were served in prime sparkliing condition it all meant that all my wastage was at a minimun. it also meant that I had to have a strile glass washing machine -- now that was difficult in 1971 and I didn't find the solution to my problem until 2 years later.
It was also very ,very important that all the pipes feeding the beer from the cellar to the bar hand pumps were washed regularly and a sensible landlord cleaned his pipes on Friday afternoon so that his beer for the w/e were being pullled through the cleanest systems all of the w/e. You could certainly tell the lazy landlord who din't do this -- I couldn't now but then I am certainly not a beer drinker over the last 25 years.
Right that's enuff! On the dark stout that I make for my 98 year old Dad in a 5 gal ( imp) barrel, I use conditioning sugar and indeed i top it up with CO2 when needed to keep it incondition -- it is just the same as i did years ago but not quite so demanding.
To be honest the essentialls were
A clean well washed cellar.
regular cleaning of the pipes - espescial b4 the w/e.
Clean glasses every time so the beer can show itself off
No cheating with old sour beers! -- ie great care and a lot of time.
Producing good draught beer, on demand, is much more difficult than producing a good bottle of wine!
Trevor - I bet there are quite a few beer brewers on this list. Thanks for the insight into proper cellar management for cask conditioned ales. If your beers only requireded a couple of days storage before the cask was empty I doubt oxidation would have ever been a problem.
Bill, There's an excellent article in the latest issue of Brew Your Own magazine about brewing Milds by Terry Foster. Just happened to have read it last night so I remember he has some tips on increasing body such as higher mash temps. and using certain dark grains. Check it out if you can. Never attempted a mild, myself, but am looking forward to trying one of his recipes.
Why should the reds, which are more sensitive to light, be on the top?
I know your post wasn't directed toward me, but we're about to start the process of using the bulk of our cellar for a wine cellar, so this was very helpful to me - thanks!
Whites are usually stored on the bottom, since the cooler temperatures exist there. even in a temperature controlled room, colder air will still settle and there can be a 3 degree difference between bottom and top of a wine cellar. If the light is always off, it shouldn't make a difference about the reds. However, if your cellar is a walk-in, place longer ageing wines towards the back, away from the door, or away from the light. Having said that, vertical placement is chosen for the sake of temperature. Reds can stand a higher cellar temperature than whites. White wines need a few degrees cooler than reds, and therefore, the lower shelves are preferred.
DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.