Water temperature question


Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns, almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew a decent pot of black tea!. Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming attachments. So here's my question. What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water? and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent pot of tea. Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because: - the pots usually have at least some metal fittings - water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when the cup is first disturbed.
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Rostyk
Reply to
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj

Luckily, over here we have no such problem, in fact the opposite - I keep cracking cups as they are often cold (in the trailer) when the boiling water hits them.
You can steam hot water to boiling in a few seconds, so yes, I'd ask the barista to do that before adding the tea.
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Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com  (a purely hobby site)
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Reply to
Danny

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" writes:
Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
/Lew
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Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
Reply to
Lewis Perin

I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's remarkably easy to burn oneself.
Reply to
TeaDave

I doubt that many espresso machines can operate without boiling the water unless it's a twin boiler with the brew boiler below boiling, or the more usual system of mixing cold water with the boiler water before the dispenser. Could explain a lot of bad espresso though.
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Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com  (a purely hobby site)
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Reply to
Danny

Might be against the local laws, but definitely impossible under the laws of thermodynamics, which are far more rigorous than any local ordinance.
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Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
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Reply to
Coffee for Connoisseurs

Nothing boils water faster than steam. The supersaturated steam packs more calories and if released under pressure can be hotter than boiling. I think the problem might be the fit. It is designed for cups not pots at least that is what I discovered with my home expresso which was a gift. Even at that boil the water in the cup and pour into the pot but I guess that is the ordinance. Someone recently suggested using a silicon tube hooked up to their pressure cooker which I know would solve my expresso clearance problem. I'd run the tube from the jet to the pot sitting beside. I'm sure the dishwasher is still at boiling. I assume you are talking about serving. I sleep better at night knowing a waiter can only scald me with less than boiling water. Just so long as they don't pass laws against flaming fajitas.
Jim
PS I switched to a 1500w electric pot. It makes water holy real fast.
Reply to
Space Cowboy

-snip-
Pah, that's nothing. Considering you Merkins have everything bigger and better than us Brits, at least we have proper manly kettles (and proper electric) which have 3kw at 230v to heat the water *real* quick. Even my espresso machine has 4500w/230v to help it's 16 litre boiler do it's stuff :)
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Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com  (a purely hobby site)
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Reply to
Danny
than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the _hot_ water provided for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the brewing cup with its tea and plunger. Well it looks like I'll have to stick to green teas at the cafe in the local Barnes and Noble or Borders book stores. :(
Even in restaurants getting tea brewed with boiling water is almost impossible around here. :(, and they usually have only the dinky one cup capacity pots and no choice in teas.
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Rostyk
Reply to
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj

Am 26 Jun 2007, Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj schrieb:
Considering the quality of the tea you would get, this is no great loss. Of course, the green tea is never very good, either.
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barutanseijin@gmail.com
Reply to
Barutan Seijin
A certain lawsuit arising from a McDonald's coffee spill is coming to mind. You can, in part, thank stupid people like that for the hesitance to allow piping hot water.
I assume this regulation doesn't apply to restaurants... no boiling water would screw up a lot of recipes, I imagine.
-Brent
Reply to
Brent
On 2007-06-26 18:23:34 -0500, Brent said:
There is also the issue of sanitation if one does not use boiling water.
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Aaron Hsu 

"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he 
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Reply to
Aaron Hsu

I'd like to see either in action. I'll never use the range anymore.
Jim
PS Don't use steel bottom kettles with an aluminum rim on ceramic tops. The differential will mar the surface. I learned the hard way.
Reply to
Space Cowboy

I don't see why not. I routinely do this when I need a quick cup or so of boiling water for tea, or any cooking need. Hot water from my marzocco's hot water tap comes out at near boiling temp as well.
I also should note that I don't know squat about tea. I recently learned from some tea folk that boiling water is not the right call for brewing some teas. Maybe you know something about that?
-Greg
Reply to
gscace

Barutan Seijin writes:
Not to mention the fact that the taste of a paper cup is stronger than that of almost any green tea...
/Lew
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Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
Reply to
Lewis Perin

Never heard that one! That's was I call al dente pasta!
I know that some people use charcoal filters on their shower head, something about volatile chemicals in the water. But I've NEVER heard of restrictions in restaurants.
I'm reading this from alt.coffee. When I drink tea, it's usually a green tea, and I've been told it's best NOT to use boiling water, but something at around 185 degrees or so (if my memory serves me). Is black tea different?
Since I'm on tea, I recently saw the blooming display teas on TV. They are hand stitched in china, and come in a ball shape. When the hot water hits them, they open up, and there are a couple of flower blossoms inside. It's a cool and unusual novelty, and the one that I tried so far actually was very good. A mild green tea with a decided floral note. There are a couple of suppliers that will send a "free sample" or two, for a couple bucks postage. I plan to order more. I think it would make an unusual gift, along with a clear tea pot.
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> Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming > attachments. So here's my question. > What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out > of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water? > and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat > the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent > pot of tea. > Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because: > - the pots usually have at least some metal fittings > - water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when > the cup is first disturbed.
Reply to
Jim

Jim writes:
Actually, I like most greens brewed cooler than that, some as cool as 140F.
Yes. Most people like fully-oxidized teas brewed with water at a full boil.
/Lew
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Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
Reply to
Lewis Perin

the books, and not for the tea or coffee. Although the tea and coffee there is better than in the standard (not specialty) restaurants. At least one can order a pot of "green tips" or "english breakfast" and not be served a bag of: Salada, Liptons, or some restaurant suppliers tea. Also the coffee is generally better, and so is the choice of pastries. Which is all meant as faint praise.
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Rostyk
Reply to
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj

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