Making bad beer - HELP!!!

My ration of bad batches to good is under 50%.

I have a full kit, not a Mr. Beer or other mini-kit. I buy good ingredients/kits from places like Williams or a local shop where I used to live (just found one where I live now - hope to get there this weekend!).

Normally I soak the primary (glass) carboy for 24 hours in a bleach/water mixture, filled to the top.. All of my utensils are soaked in a cleaning mix I got from the last brewstore.

My last batch fermented 21 days in a primary - I wanted to move to a secondary after 7-10 days but my schedule wouldn't allow it. Then I went to bottles.

The bottling bucket (plastic) was cleaned the same way the fermenter was - I think that was only for a few hours though. Then it was drained through the spigot to clean it as well. Each was rinced thoroughly.

The flavor of the mixture at the time it went to bottles was good, so I am thinking i was OK at that point. So I am thinking it was the bottles themselves that caused the problem. How do YOU clean your bottles?

I've tried everything from soaking them in a cleaning mixture and scrubbing them, to putting them in a dishwasher. Caps are always boiled before installation. Still when I open one there is definetly something wrong more often than not. And it is not limited to just one bottle.

Is there something I am missing or not doing right? Any tips you have would be greatly appreciated!

Lou Frustrated and thirsty in Long Beach, CA

Reply to
Lou
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Please describe the bad taste. What are you adding at bottling sugar-wise? Are you boiling the sugar solution you add? Are you tasting left-over bleach?

Some helpful reading at

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Reply to
BierNewbie

On bottling day the first think I do is fill a large tub with sanitizer and soak the bottles in it. Then I prep everything else, get caps ready, bench capper, sanitize tubing and bottle filler.

A ten minute soak in bleach or another sanitizer I use is usually sufficient but I'm slow so they soak longer.

When everything else is ready I put the jet bottle rinser on the faucet, rinse and turn them upside-down in a drainer to drain. When I finish rinsing I start filling and my wife caps.

Reply to
Zaphod Beeblebrock

I don't use bleach for anything any more. I had on batch that got ruined because all the bleach wasn't rinsed out of my secondary. Check one of your suppliers for PBW (Powdered Brewery Wash). I now use this to clean everything. I even had a problem with "burnt" malt at the bottom of my brew pot that I couldn't wash off and this stuff got it off after a good soak. As for the bottles, if you rinse them out right after you empty them, with hot water, you should be able to just use a little sanitizing solution (One Step, or some other "no rinse" sanitizer) on the day you bottle. If you are using old bottles, that weren't rinsed properly, and have "gunk" on the bottom, soak them for about a day in hot water and PBW and everything should come out. Use a brush for really stubborn bottles. I don't boil my caps. As long as you are not using "oxygen absorbing" caps, you can just soak then in a "no rinse" sanitizing solution for about 5-10 minutes before you use them. Just leave them in the solution until you put them on the bottles. Hope this helps. Cheers,

Reply to
DragonTail281

My bet is chlorine is what is doing it. Maybe you aren't rinsing well enough? Also the bleach is unscented right?

Recently I have settled on diversol for cleaning (chlorine based cleaner that need good rinsing with hot hot water) and iodophor (sp?) for sanitizing (1ml/liter in a spray bottle). I only make it a liter at a time as it doesn't last very long.

I don't trust bleach to get all the organics off the equipment, and if there is anything left it could affect the beer. Some people fair well with bleach so that may not be your problem, but I'd encourage you to try something else so you can verify that isn't the problem.

I don't use the dishwasher for bottles. I've seen too many people with detergent left in their bottles (or shrunk pet bottles from the heat). I have heard of people using the dishwasher w/o detergent, but I question how much water actually gets in the bottle. I personally do the same as my other equipment: diversol to clean, iodophore to sanitize. I won't even necessarily do them both the same day (might clean them a week ahead of time and sanitize just before I use them).

Oh, on iodophore: mix to the correct dilution, spray and let it drip dry, don't rinse, seriously no need to rinse.

Sorry this seems like a advert for iodophore, but I've tried a few different sanitizers over the years and it's what I have found to be effective for me (tried some peroxide based ones and others but none were as easy or consistent). Plus it is cheap.

21 days in the primary seemed a little long as well. I generally will wait for the beer to krausen then rack to a sanitized glass carboy (from the plastic primary), so 3 days to a week or so. But others have left beer in the primary that long w/o problems so that isn't necessarily it.

As asked by drag> My ration of bad batches to good is under 50%.

Reply to
stephen

Thanks for all the feedback!

I am not sure I know HOW to describe the taste... it's REALLY hideous. Very strong, foul smell. has been the same over several batches that have gone bad on me.

The bleach I used was unsceneted, and I did a good job rinsing the carboy with a bottle washer attached to the sink so I don't think that was the problem.

I used the plain package of priming sugar that came with the kit. I didn't boil it, the instructions said to mix it with water before adding to the mix prior to bottling. The tools I used to mix it with were clean... but I didn't boil the water. Could that be it?

I started a new batch a few days ago. I soaked the carboy with a mixture of "B Brite" that someone gave me to try. Later I got a bottle of an Iodine-based cleaner. Wish I had used both, but I wasn't able to.

One thing I've wondered about. When fermentation gets going full blast, the bubbles back up into my tubing. Not a big deal, that's what is there for, right? But then I get 'gunk' on top of the fermenter - should I do anything about that, or just let it remain there until after I have syphoned out the wert and then clean it out?

I always wash out the bottles good after use. I will use soak them in the Iodine cleaner before bottling this batch, unless there is something better I should try. I will aslo use both the B-brite and Iodine cleaner in the bottling bucket.

Should the primary fermentation be done in a plastic container? I thought glass was best - or is that a matter of preference? I was told to use glass fermenters and then bottle from the plastic.

I have found a local brew supply store that has meetings once a month. the next one is in 2 weeks - you can bet I will be there!

Lou

Reply to
Lou

This sounds like there is something basic that you are doing wrong, find that and everything new should be great.

Bleach has to be _well_ rinsed. Darned well. I don't have any experience with it.

Boil the water, and SANITIZE the tools, not just clean them. I use Iodafour for all my sanitizing. and in 4 batches have not had any problems, except for one piece of tubing that I left in the Iodafour too long and it picked up the Iodine flavor.

That brings up another point, SANITIZE EVERYTHING. Or as someone recently said, everything should be wet with sanitizer - even your hands. Don't touch anything with your dry (dirty) hands. Dunk them in Sanitizer first, and often.

Let all the Iodine drain from the bucket and air dry - so says my Iodine, read it today. Air dry it upside down - so any of the nasties in the air don't fall in.

One disadvantage to Glass is that it breaks!

Are they open in the evening? on the weekends? The four HB Shops I have visited are all very friendly. If the counter person doesn't know the answers to your questions, most probably another customer will, and be more than willing to diagnose your problem. If your club is like the two I'm in, the meetings may not be the most helpful time, Everyone will be tasting good brews, you can get some info, but at the shop will be the best place. Think of it as a classroom. Listen and Learn.

mike

Reply to
mike vore

I had the same problem. At bottleing time the finished wort tasted great but after opening a bottle at drinking time it was skunk beer. Found out my pan for boiling the sugar water was the problem. I couldn't find my stainless pan so I grabbed a pan from the house. Sure enough there were enough other stuff baked in the sides of the pan that I was transfering food particles into my bottles via the boiled sugar water. Changed to a stainless and sugar water only pan and the problem went away. As for cleaning, I'm a strong proponent of One Step cleaner and sanitizer. I still use Iodophor after using the One Step. Can't be too safe.

Reply to
wayne edgin

Exactly. And that's the way /most/ beer people are (hey, you put all that time and effort in you might as well be sure it will be good).

While finishing my degree I work part-time at a U-brew (wine,beer, cider etc) and it amazes me how bad some peoples bottles are when they come in. We explain the difference between sanitizing and cleaning and ask that they clean their bottles at home but they either don't care or think it doesn't matter. When you put the time in to make it, you will generally spend the time to make sure you don't wreck it.

Reply to
stephen

Maybe you are splashing the liquid around when bottling or putting it into the bottling container. That can add oxygen into the liquid (that's a beer killer). Once the primary fermentation starts you don't want oxidation of the liquid because that can give it off flavors. I found this on the web. Maybe it will help.

Some Things to Watch out for: Contamination of beer can happen at any stage of the brewing process. Some are not readily apparent. But any problem that can be easily drank will not cause physical harm. By the way, it is absolutely impossible to produce poisonous methyl (wood) alcohol when brewing beer. A few infections that may cause severe gastric distress will first be noted by their appalling smell. Here are some warning signs:

  1. Mold floating on top of the fermenting beer. Toss it.
  2. The beer has slimy strands in it. This is a sure sign of Lacto infection. Toss it.
  3. The bottled beer has a milky layer at the top and/or small residue bumps clinging to the sides of the bottle neck in the airspace. This is a bacterial infection. The beer will smell rotten and taste nasty. Do not confuse this with the dew that condenses near the bottle cap; the dew is normal. Also, Priming with DME will leave a protein ring around the top of the bottle, just like what is left on the sides of the fermenter. This is also normal.
  4. The bottled beer has a very sweet smell, like molasses. This is a sign of an Aceto (acetic) infection. The beer is on its way to turning into malt vinegar. Malt vinegar is good, but not what was intended.
  5. The bottled beers are getting worse with time, a stale, cardboard-like or sherry-like flavor is becoming noticeable. This is a symptom of oxidation. Drink the beers sooner and try to avoid splashing the hot wort next time.
  6. A skunk-like or cat-musk smell. The beer is light struck. Always store beer in a dark or shaded area.
Reply to
compton

Lou,

To be honest most of us have had problems that until resolved caused the occasional "failure". In the early days when I was still learning & inexperienced I had a run of failures that I have never been able to explain. You need to use common sense & be strict in checking all the steps in your process. You are correct to focus on equipment hygiene which is generally what lets new brewers down. Answering specifically your questiona bout bottle sterilisation: I do not sterilise my bottles unless I have collected some rejects & do not know their history. I am however very carefull to thoroughly wash by bottles when they are emptied. I use several hotwater rinses in a vigorous swirling action to empty the water, I then store inverted in a rack until they are completely dry. I KNOW THIS IS NOT IDEAL, but long practice has taught me that this is a process simplification (saves Time & effort) that I can safely make. It may not work for you so I recommend that you sterilise everything with strong bleach. You will need to be careful, I strip to my underpants when doing this to save my clothes, gets my wife laughing. Remember that you need to wash the bleach residue away with either cold filtered water or water direct from your hot faucet this ensures max sterility. One issue you may not have considered is contaminater water from your cold faucet, I have been advised this can cause failure of brews but I cannot vouch for this as a real possibility. HOWEVER I did fit the finest 0.5 micron filter & activated charcoal filter on our home water supply (ie kitchen cold faucet) just to be sure. Recommend you do this & if you already have such a filter ensuer the cartridges are renewed to the spec I mention. Hope this is more food for thought - please keep us informed of progress.

Pete

"Lou" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Reply to
peterlonz

If you are on a regular municipal water supply (rather than a well) contamination of the cold water supply shouldn't be much of a problem. The supply is generally treated for this and shouldn't be bad unless there has been a problem at the treatment plant. Frequently, the reason for filtering municipal water is to remove the clorinated taste resulting from treatment.

On the other hand, water heaters can actually *harbor* and provide a nice home for nasties. Many people reduce the thermostat setting on the water heater in order to save money. According to information I have read, setting the thermostat to 136F or lower provides a nice environment for nasties.

Reply to
Zaphod Beeblebrock

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