Newbie fermentation questions

OK. After reading howtobrew online and other sources via google I think I understand the three fermentation steps.

  1. Primary (alcohol production)
  2. Secondary (conditioning)
  3. Bottle (carbonation and further conditioning)

The presence of oxygen is required at the start of the primary but to be avoided like the plague during secondary and bottle. Some people seem to think a secondary fermentation off the trub is vital, others don't seem to think it matters one way or the other (generally speaking). The danger of secondary is getting oxygen in the secondary fermenter and producing vinegar. Somehow the presence of oxygen in the bottle is not nearly as bad as in the secondary, or at least people seem to accept it as a necessary evil.

If I read correctly and the above reflects an accurate understanding of the situtation, then I have some questions.

  1. What is a racking cane? I see the term used, I see what it looks like and I still have no idea why you would use it vs just plain tubing. Maybe they are easier to clean?

  1. Do the auto siphons work for moving to the seconday & bottling? How do you purge the oxygen from the line during the transfer to the secondary? I assume it matters because some have suggested filling the siphon tube with sanitizer. This does not seem like not a good idea, so what other options are there?

  2. What about using food grade mineral oil in the secondary so that there is NO space above the wort and therefore no oxygen to skunk the beer? Mineral oil does not seem to be a good medium for the presence of bacteria, yeast or any other nasty.

  1. How difficult is it to purge bottles with CO2 before bottling? It seems that you would need some special device in order to use the CO2 cartridges that you can get a Wal-Mart. Is it even worth it if you could?

  2. Is there a difference between PET bottles used for water, i.e. Crystal Springs, and those used for soda pop? Are the soda bottles engineered differently? Is there a danger of the water bottles failing after being carbonated, assuming NORMAL carbonation. Obviously if you put too much priming sugar in all bottles of all types are subject to failure.

I'm sure the answer to these questions are self-evident to those that have been brewing for a while. Google is a wonderful tool, but sometimes it matters how you ask the question.

Thanks for your help,

Frank

Reply to
Frank
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You're working too hard, Frank!

Getting too much oxygen into the fermenter is said to produce a "wet-cardboard" flavor. The beer can handle some small amounts of oxygen, so purging your siphon or bottles with CO2 is not necessary.

Vinegar is produced from bacterial action, not oxygen. Keep things clean and sanitary.

If you use a siphon to move the beer from primary to secondary, you won't get as much oxygen into the beer as you would by simply pouring it. Keep the bottom end of the siphon submerged to reduce splashing. Most siphons seem to have a cap on the bottom to help reduce it sucking up sediment.

I start my siphon by putting the end of a turkey baster into the end of the tubing and releasing the squeeze-bulb. Some people just suck on the end of the tubing, others submerge the tubing to fill it and then hold the ends until it's in position for siphoning. Whatever works.

A racking cane is a handy addition to the siphon. A length of hard plastic tubing with a valve on the end. You put the valve end into a cleaned and sterilized bottle, and when pressed against the bottom of the bottle the valve opens, so beer can flow through the siphon and valve into the bottle. When you lift the cane, the flow stops.

I'll take a pass on the rest for now. I'm sure the more-experiences brewers here can answer them better than I.

Karl S.

Reply to
Karl S.

Well, not quite...oxygenation can be as bad a problem in the bottle as in the secondary. And it does not produce vinegar (that comes from an acetobacter infec tion), it produces stale beer with a "wet cardboard" or metallic taste.

It's a piece of stiff palstic with a bend at the top. Not required, but they make life easier.

Haven't used them, but I hear they work well. I start sipohins by fillojng the siphon tube with water and letting it drain into a cup before directing the runoff to the fermenter.

Oxygen does not skunk beer...exposure to light does. Using mineral oil in the secondary would be a cure worse than the problem is.

Not necessary...the refermentation in the bottles scavenges the O2 in there.

Yes. Always use PET bottles designed for carbonated beverages.

If you haven't already, read this...www.howtobrew.com.

--------->Denny

Reply to
Denny Conn

I may be wrong, but I don't think that oxygen is the culprit in getting vinegar. Vinegar is a result of bacterial contamination. Proper sanitation will avoid this. The alcohol in the beer helps prevent contamination during secondary and bottling, but you still need to sanitize everything like you want to perform surgery with it. I have never had an oxidation problem and I don't worry about introducing some oxygen. I only siphon and bottle gently and it has worked so far.

A racking cane is a rigid plastic tube that is shaped like a cane. You stick a flexible tube at the top and put the long end into your carboy. I start my siphon by filling the sanitize cane and tube with water. Put a finger over the end of the tube and put the cane into the carboy and the siphon will start immediarely. I wash my hands with standard antibacterial hand soap before doing this and it has been successful so far. If you want to boil and cool the water first, go ahead if it will make you rest easier. I don't bother because I figure my city tap water is already treated when it comes out of the faucet.

I have never used an auto siphon so I can't comment. The amount of oxygen in the siphon tube is so small that I don't worry about it. Just remember that your beer has a fair amount of dissolved CO2 in it. When you transfer the beer some of the CO2 will come out of the solution. So, the oxygen doesn't really affect the beer much.

I would avoid the mineral oil because it is another potential source of contamination. My theory on bottle head space is that you actually want a little oxygen present. After the secondary, yeast activity seems to go relatively dormant. When you bottle with sugar, the yeast go through a new life cycle. So, I think that the yeast will use up whatever little oxygen is there. Plus, filling each bottle knocks a little CO2 out of the beer. Again, it's just a theory.

I don't use plastic bottles, but I would assume that any bottle with a screw cap will work just fine. I don't see plastic manufacturers going through the hassle of making one type of plastic for carbonated beverages and another for non-carbonated.

Reply to
Glenn Langowski

A racking cane is a rigid tube which the reuglar tubing fits on to. It has a strainer on the bottom to rack the beer off the trub.

It also transfers from primary to secondary and replaces the racking cane. It is a much easier method to transfer. It seems you are putting too much emphasis on the oxygen thing. After the beer has finished primary fermentation it is very unlikely you will end up with vinegar unless you don't have good sanitation practices. You don't want to introduce oxygen after primary because oxygen can make your beer go "stale" so to speak. Making it taste like cardboard. As long as you don't splash around too much and you are fairly quiet in your transfers you will be fine.

No need to and have never heard of it being done.

Kinda easy if you have a kegging setup. Again not nessesary

Don't know..I bottle in glass. Clear bottles are bad because they let light in. Light interacts with the hop oils and causes skunked beer. You can always crack open a PET bottle to release some gas if it feels too hard and might be overcarbonating.

Frank, I have been brewing for thirteen years. All of your questions are great ones and shows you will have what it takes to make great beer. Just remember this...Clean everything thorough.. Sanitize the heck out of everything. After Primary Fermentation...transfer gently and quietly. Relax and let the beer do its thing. You will do fine. John

Reply to
John Letendre

I appreciate all of the responses you guys have given me. I really appreciate y'all explaining how bad sanitation causes vinegar, not O2. Thanks for the explanation of how a racking cane can be helpful. I also like the auto siphon idea now that some have recommended it. Also, some of the other newsgroup posts about how to add priming sugar to the fermenter before bottling are very useful. All in all this is a great newsgroup and it is wonderful that you all are a part of making it that way.

Happy New Year,

Frank

Reply to
Frank

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