Monkey Pick Oolong

Eric,

I welcome your comments, can you substantiate that there are no chemicals that can leach out of plain brown paper bags?

I know very little of the process except for the Instrumentation work I have done inside of a Paper Mill. I do know that in that mill there were lots of very nasty chemicals involved in the process because I engineered the controls to monitor and dispense these chemicals, for example concentrated caustic soda and acetic acid etc. Now, admittedly, I know very little about how much of these various chemicals remain in the finished product but I surely am skeptical about it all.

I have also worked in Textile mills and yes most fabrics undergo very similar caustic and acid baths. The difference, as I perceive it, is that if I am in doubt I can personaly wash and rinse the heck out of some fabric to the point where I feel comfortable with it but I can't do much to purge a paper bag. Our resident chemist friend (Dogma) has also warned me about chemicals that will leech out of paper, hence he prefers the "aicd free" segment of the paper market that caters to the Museum and Archival industries.

Mike

Eric Gis> The claim about brown paper bags is enviro-hysteria.

Please stop this "toxic chemical" hysteria.

Caustic soda is lye, used for thousands of years in making food: olives, tortillas, nuts. It is used to make soap. Sure it can be caustic, but it is not toxic.

Acetic acid is vinegar. Don't you have an encyclopedia?

There are three types of mechanic pulp, only one uses chemicals:

Eric,

Eric, It seems that you are the one over-reacting here. I simply stated that I would avoid paper bags for storing my valuable puerh because I didn't know what chemicals "may" have been used in its manufacturing, they don't exactly put disclosure statements on paper, so where is the hysteria there? Caution - maybe, hysteria - no. I am not an anti-toxin fanatic, there is a time and place for most chemicals, that place is simply NOT next to my tea. Puerh can be stored for 30 years or more, more than enough time for chemicals to leech out of the paper if they are present. Why do you think that so many teabag manufacturers are switching to unbleached paper? It is in response to public demand, not hysteria.

However, if you want to talk about the realities of industrial chemicals I will happily oblige you. The caustic soda that I have personally dealt with, and is standard, in these industries was so strong that a single drop would burn right through your leather shoes and then your skin. It had so many chemical hazard labels that it would make you head spin. Anyone who tries to say it is not toxic simply has never personally handled the stuff. We kept diluted acetic acid around just to neutralize a caustic spill if any got on ourselves, otherwise the stuff would literally burn right through your flesh. This is not a joke or an exaggeration. Heck I even have pictures to prove it. The acetic acid used in these industries is 80% or greater, your vinegar is only 5%, not exactly the same thing either. The hydrogen peroxide was so strong that if you got a drop on yourself then you would start bleeding immediately. Nobody is going to convince me that these are harmless chemicals, I know better.

Can they be safely used, yes they can. Are there chemical residues in the finished products, who knows, all I know is that I don't want to use this stuff to store my valuable puerh.

Mike

Mike Petro

What do the jars look like? A local store sells it in plastic bags, glass jars, plastic tubs. I always suspected since it is sold by the gallon there must be something else for long term storage and aging.

Jim

Mel> Good point.. I can probably find something diffeent then. There are also big

These are the dark brown earthenware glazed jars with the lid that sits on top..they're for making kimchee in the traditional manner I think. I don't know how to make it...but these definitely play a part somewhere.

They have a lot of character but, as I said, they have a rough glaze inside and they are also pretty expensive for the larger ones. Plus I'm not sure how well they would breath...they aren't sealed but the only possible airflow if any would be through the top instead of through the sides.

Melinda

Many Koreans now make their kimchi in plastic buckets, and uses fridges. The big jars are used to store kimchi and salted shrimps several months in cellars or outside the house, in Winter, they may put them into the earth to prevent freezing. These jars need to be glazed to prevent leaking and smell getting out, and not to allow breezing. If you are given one, you probably just need to replace the lid by a wooden one to allow breezing, but I wouldn't buy one specially for tea.

If you want unglazed pottery, you should visit a large gardening store. The terracotta pots for flowers are usually cheap and in all sizes and shapes. Your tea is not liquid, so you just have to tape the holes in the bottom, and get a tile or a wood panel to make a cover.

Kuri

You forgot to mention lutefisk.

--scott

And that's my cue...

Oh Lutefisk... Oh Lutefisk... how fragrant your aroma Oh Lutefisk... Oh Lutefisk... You put me in a coma You smell so strong... You look like glue You taste yust like an overshoe But Lutefisk ... come Saturday I tink I'll eat you anyway.

I lived in Minnesota for too many years, and it's going to haunt me.

I think Lutefisk is sort of the North's answer to grits. Here in the south, they use lye to make grits. Lacking that in the upper midwest, they have been forced to use lye in other unnatural ways.

--scott

Hardly hysteria. Some kraft paper is still made by sulfite-process pulping. It will emit SO2 more or less forever. That not only smells/tastes bad, but might also kill desirable bugs in live-culture Puer and also destroy sensitive notes in other teas. Even non-sulfite papers are often sized with inorganic and organic materials that one might not want in contact with really valuable teas. I would only use archival, preferably unsized paper for wrapping Puer. There are plenty of options, from some bonds to long-fiber printmaking papers to lab filter papers.

I kind of like lutefisk, and suspect that it would go OK with a cooked Puer. Surstromming has thus far evaded my lips; never had time (or a laundry opportunity after opening the can) during many trips to Scandinavia, and there's apparently no legal import to the US.

-DM

OKokok, I've been reading this thread for quite a while, and was just as amused as everybody else as it turned to lutefisk. This has only left me with one problem...just what is lutefisk? I know what grits are, but lutefisk? Does it involve fish at any point? Marlene

Try this link:

- any invitations to lutefisk dinners, which usually occur around Christmas time. Please be aware that the Ole person from that site, is not me. Far from it.

cheers, ole k, trondheim, norway

It is fish soaked in lye until it becomes gelatinous and transparent. It's sort of like the opposite of ceviche.

I don't know what sort of tea would go well with lutefisk, other than one that was a long way away.

--scott

Any tea spiked with Aquavit would help - immensely - as Ole's already pointed out.

Let's work this out. Japanese tea pairs well with raw fish vibrant with life. So...

Japanese tea is to raw fish what ______ is to lutefisk.

What's the most lifeless, ferment-funk tea we can come up with? Why, Puerh, of course.

--crymad

Marlene snipped-for-privacy@individual.net/5/05 03: snipped-for-privacy@utahis.com

Ah, you're in for a treat. BTW, do you like Buckley's cough syrup? That would make a good beginning in your quest for the joys of lutefisk. Goes great with a proper Durian undoubtedly, and would be a perfect complement to many Pu'erhs. A cross-cultural delight.

Michael

crymad wrote in news:11a768o47h99r14 @corp.supernews.com:

I couldn't stand pu-erh either, not so long ago. It is an acquired taste -- but well worth it in the long run. Might as well despise cheese as milk gone bad...

Ozzy "De gustibus non est disputandum" (freely translated by Mark Twain: "It's difference of opinion that makes horse races")

think of lutefisk as norwegian sushi.

:)