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Imagine you have just discovered AFW.
The most active thread, with 24 replies so far, is the one called "You really are a bunch of Peckerheads"
Hmmmmm. Guys, let's start a new thread instead of keeping these funny ones going...
Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link
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Mike Tommasi

How's that?
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> Imagine you have just discovered AFW. > > The most active thread, with 24 replies so far, is the one called "You > really are a bunch of Peckerheads" > > Hmmmmm. Guys, let's start a new thread instead of keeping these funny > ones going... > > > > Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France > email link
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MikeD

Mike,
I'll try to help...last night my "dessert" was a Blackberry wine from Bashore & Stoudt (local PA vintner). Not what you might expect - semi-sweet, unlike a dessert-style wine.
Dan-O
Reply to
Dan The Man

Mike, the fact that 23 others didn't bother to change the subject line before posting can only lead me to the conclusion that the OP's assertion may have an element of truth !
Reply to
st.helier

... or that the people who replied were mature enough to overlook ignorance, unlike some people who are so anal they need to point out that other people failed to change the subject line.
So, how long have you been a student at Mrs. Chumworthy's Etiquette School?
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> Mike, the fact that 23 others didn't bother to change the subject line > before posting can only lead me to the conclusion that the OP's assertion > may have an element of truth ! > >
Reply to
MikeD

Yeah, that _is_ kind of pathetic, isn't it?
OK Mike, but what about the _subject_?
I have an idea, but it's more of a question than anything else:
Why have I (insert your name here) not yet posted to the Blog?
I have a tentative answer:
I find a.f.w less intimidating. This is conversation (although we have to wait awhile for a response).
Blogging looks more like writing a serious paper, although I suppose that it might be brief. I could blither on about French oak forests and how they taste different among themselves, and which I prefer and why - but I rather doubt that would have much of an audience; but even if it did I wouldn't have the time to devote to writing a treatise on the subject.
I agreed, as many others here did, to participate in the blog. The trouble is, I don't know where to start. I have a suggestion though, that might make it easier for us to get our feet wet:
I would like to know how informal is _too_ informal. IOW, what should our general level of seriosity be? Where on a scale of 1(Who is J Lo married to this week?) to 10(massive myocardial infarction) should we aim to "fall" (or should that be "arise"?)? Would that be a log or linear scale?
Here's a last minute thought: Is there an easy way to know what's going on in the other languages in the blog? I just got an e-mail from someone French who was really stoked about the Blog getting mention in the press. At least I _think_ that was the gist of it. Who _was_ that masked person, and what happened?
Tom S
Reply to
Tom S

in article %6I7e.4128$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com, Tom S at snipped-for-privacy@dontspampacbell.net wrote on 4/14/05 10:16 PM:
Tom, Now I have a question. I feel like I've been asleep, yet I know I've read this thread from the beginning, and read most everything on this board. (Sorry for the 'middle-posting'..... but....)
What "blog" are you referring to????
Is there a blog that's been a major subject here recently? I know MikeD's site has forums on it...... is that it? Feel like I'm missing something. ;o)
Reply to
Midlife

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:35:11 -0700, Midlife said:
] in article %6I7e.4128$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com, Tom S at ] snipped-for-privacy@dontspampacbell.net wrote on 4/14/05 10:16 PM: ] ] Tom, ] Now I have a question. I feel like I've been asleep, yet I know I've read ] this thread from the beginning, and read most everything on this board. ] (Sorry for the 'middle-posting'..... but....) ] ] ] > OK Mike, but what about the _subject_? ] ] ] > I have an idea, but it's more of a question than anything else: ] > ] > Why have I (insert your name here) not yet posted to the Blog? ] ] What "blog" are you referring to???? ]
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] > I have a tentative answer: ] > ] > I find a.f.w less intimidating. This is conversation (although we have to ] > wait awhile for a response). ] > ] ] > Tom S ] ] ] Is there a blog that's been a major subject here recently? I know MikeD's ] site has forums on it...... is that it? Feel like I'm missing something. ] ;o) ]
No we haven't discussed it online here. Recent events make me wonder if perhaps we shouldn't do so, though. I'm torn between loyalty to the old idea of newsgroup communities and what may be the modern reality of very wide (and often juvenile) access.
In effect I agreed whole heartedly with Mark L's comment on the blog, although I didn't respond, but now I'm starting to wonder if maybe Bill (if he has picked up his bags) has the right idea.
-E
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Emery Davis
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Emery Davis

Hi Tom,
by "let's start a new thread" I meant that if a troll's post goes off on a (better) tangent, then start a new thread going with a new subject.
I did not intend to veer the conversation off to the blog, I have been rather discrete about the blog on AFW.
I think AFW and the blog have two different functions, and there is room for both. Yes, we did get coverage in a blog guide that came out in France thius week, and it has made our hits go sky high.
To check out the other language sessions, the menu strip on the top right allows you to switch.
Thanks to all who have contributed.
Best
Mike
Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link
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Mike Tommasi

Contributions to the blog are usually short, there is no rule against long researched articles, but the trend is to write often without spending too much time on it. Good quality short pieces are fine.
Again, it is NOT a substitute for the NG, more of a complement. We know what the NG is. A blog opens up to a wider audience, and works in an asymmetrical way. This blog in particular is a community blog, so you have a limited number of contributors (fewer than on a NG), but the comments coming back to the authors are from a much wider audience (much wider than a NG, even allowing for lurkers). I think that the blog can even refer to the NG (contributing to make the NG better known).
There is no rule. You can write serious tasting notes or a funny piece like Joe Beppe would write (not that many of us can compete with Joe...). Just be aware that you are going to be read by a potentially wider audience.
The more informal banter can still go on, in the comments section. Comments can be contributed by anyone, no logins or registrations for now). So an author of the community can respond to a comment wit hanother comment.
Ehm, that was me, it should have been clearly signed Mike Tommasi... I was relaying the info from Laure (french blog) who pointed out that we made the SVM weblog guide, despite being active for only a couple of months.
Best
Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link
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Mike Tommasi

Again, it is not a matter of loyalty, they are two different things, and quite compatible I think.
Note about the juvenile aspect, most blogs are indeed created by teenagers who write all kinds of crap the first week and then never touch it again. This accounts for most of the so-called blog phenomenon, it is therefore a non-event really ;-)
But in the midst of all the noice there are some really good ones. My tack was to go for the niche of community web logs, that is what thewineblog.net is.
I get the feeling that I have missed a few posts. I cannot find any comment by Mark L on the blog...
Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link
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Reply to
Mike Tommasi

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:58:21 +0200, Mike Tommasi said:
] ] ] >
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/ ] > ] >No we haven't discussed it online here. Recent events make me wonder if ] >perhaps we shouldn't do so, though. I'm torn between loyalty to the old ] >idea of newsgroup communities and what may be the modern reality of ] >very wide (and often juvenile) access. ] ] Again, it is not a matter of loyalty, they are two different things, ] and quite compatible I think. ]
I take your point, but I also notice we haven't heard from M. Spohn here recently. I wonder if the whole idea of newsgroups isn't changing, and if mechanisms like the blog won't eventually replace them. An example is the uk gardening group urg. Used to be quite useful. Now so filled with noise, trolls and flame wars as to be practically unreadable. Recently it was attacked by robot-wielding trolls (who make ours here look benign in the extreme) which many servers were unable to filter, effectively rendering it offline for many users.
] Note about the juvenile aspect, most blogs are indeed created by ] teenagers who write all kinds of crap the first week and then never ] touch it again. This accounts for most of the so-called blog ] phenomenon, it is therefore a non-event really ;-) ] ] But in the midst of all the noice there are some really good ones. My ] tack was to go for the niche of community web logs, that is what ] thewineblog.net is. ]
That's true I'm sure. I was actually referring to the juveniles we sometimes get here, and who are much more present on some other ngs.
] > ] >In effect I agreed whole heartedly with Mark L's comment on the blog, although ] >I didn't respond, but now I'm starting to wonder if maybe Bill (if he has picked ] >up his bags) has the right idea. ] ] I get the feeling that I have missed a few posts. I cannot find any ] comment by Mark L on the blog... ]
He commented on 12 march:
"I think that we're also seeing another, wholly unanticipated, effect of "Sideways" in afw: the arrival of trolls. My best guess is that they take the character of Miles in the film as somehow emblematic of a winelover and decide to take aim at pomposity, slavishness to reviewers, etc. by trolling afw. *sigh* Hopefully, once the movie has left the theaters we'll slowly return to our normal, civil forum before all the quality posters decide to up and leave (Bill, are you listening?)"
-E
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Emery Davis
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Emery Davis

Ah, yes! Now I recall!
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>>So, how long have you been a student at Mrs. Chumworthy's >>Etiquette School? >> > > Don't you remember - I started the day after you, and was expelled the same > afternoon!!! ;-) > >
Reply to
MikeD

I'm still out here drinking wine, but AOL has dropped it's newsgroup service which measn that I have to remember to google this group to read or post and I don't get around to it as often as I used to.
I have been posting to the Blog site Michael started.
Off to taste 1987 Opus against 1990 Dominus tonight - any bets on which will be more pleasing?
I'll try to remember to post notes!
Reply to
Bill

That's really lame. It amazes me that AOL manages to keep so many of its customers when I hear so many complaints about their service (and not just that one, which is news to me). I will _never_ buy AOL stock.
My $ is on Opus - but it could go either way.
Tom S
Reply to
Tom S

On 23 Apr 2005 09:43:21 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Bill) said:
] > I take your point, but I also notice we haven't heard from M. Spohn here ] > recently. ] ] I'm still out here drinking wine, but AOL has dropped it's newsgroup ] service which measn that I have to remember to google this group to ] read or post and I don't get around to it as often as I used to. ] ] I have been posting to the Blog site Michael started. ]
Ah, ha! In my own defence, I never for a second contemplated the idea that you had stopped drinking (and tasting...)
I'll echo Tom -- if aol is so lame, why stick with them? Even in the great north, there must be other options. Anyway, I hope you'll keep sending your notes to afw, now that things are (hopefully) calming down.
] Off to taste 1987 Opus against 1990 Dominus tonight - any bets on ] which will be more pleasing? ]
My money's o nthe Dominus.
] I'll try to remember to post notes!
Your public awaits...
-E
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Emery Davis
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Emery Davis

I am going to take off an AFW hat and put on a[n] historical hat for a moment.
"Tom S" in news:Mlvae.2328$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Be that as it may, the change is also deeply ironic. To see this, you may need to have used newsgroups significantly, before AOL dramatically _opened_ its subscribers to newsgroup access (or at least, you need to be interested in those days). That event was circa early-middle 1990s, I don't know the date. It was a milestone for the newsgroups, because it marked the nominal transition from the older user base (which typically came from technical activities and was accustomed, for years, to running diverse software to access newsgroups, from various computers and operating systems, especially the UNIX(tm) class of operating systems, seminal to the development of computer networks including what came about 1980 to be called the "ARPA Internet" in the US) to the newer user base (which was relatively unfamiliar with how software worked, and which operated by pointing and clicking -- with standard interfaces that came automatically with the computer or the ISP.)
The consequence was a culture clash labeled Eternal September. The phrase is from the old annual cycle of new newsgroup users appearing every September via universities (which had long-standing network access). These users would go through learning curves and ask Frequently Asked Questions. One respected newsgroup moderator, who began his newsgroup in the 1980s and still moderates it, and who saw the advent of the Eternal September, gave me the following anecdote. It captures what was memorable about the AOL era at the time, to the older users. (Note the capital letters.)
` The first AOL posting I ever saw was on comp.unix-wizards, which was a group for Unix kernal hackers. It begin with "I CLICK ON THE CLICKER AND I JUST GET ERROR MESSAGES" and it ended with "THE UNIX I AM USING IS AMERICA ONLINE." '
Nowadays of course the readership has evolved and expanded, and most people probably read newsgroups via software that came with the computer or the service provider's interface. _Departure_ of AOL from newsgroup access is more noticeable as inconvenient to AOL's veteran newsgroup users than as a footnote to a milestone in net communication.
(For a bit more background, see RFC1855. Its codification into an NIC document -- previously, a version was circulated by re-posting -- coincided roughly with the Eternal September. Its section 1.0, Introduction, acknowledges the culture shift.) -- Max
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Max Hauser

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