Non-enameled Tetsubin

Wouldn't the esteemed M. Erler be able to provide it, just like everything else he talks about on his blog?

MarshalN

The question is -- is there a good reason to use one?

MarshalN

Tea Masters snipped-for-privacy@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com12/26/06

03:10stephane snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com [MarshalN on Tetsubin for water heating use]:

snip

[Stephane]

I have heard it said -- I have *no* experience -- that the iron of the tesubin could flatten the taste of the tea. But, you say it adds sweetness. I'll just have a try as soon as I get my hands on one. I *think* that the iron might enhance Japanese teas which can tend more toward astringency than Chinese teas that usually don't. I agree that the tetsubin is a pleasing accouterment, if I might use that word, to the tea table.

I know that the tetsubin is an intrinsic part of the Japanese tea ceremony, but the ceremony deploys matcha, which is generally inferior to leaf tea, even at its best; and besides, the ceremony is about anything and everything, save tea.

I will, indeed. Now, how do I heat the thing? On the stove, in it's own little brazier (sp?)?

Michael

Small iron pots for campfires are easy to come by.

Jim

Phyll wrote:

Oooh, that hurts, I love a good bowl of Matcha, I find it delightfuly different but not inferior, just different. I do feel that a pot of loose is more social by American standards, where matcha for several people is less so, at least for me it is more of a solo thing.

Mike

Mike snipped-for-privacy@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com12/26/06

11: snipped-for-privacy@mikepetro.org

Some of my best friends are matcha enthusiasts, and so I keep trying, and continue to keep trying, to get that matcha to hit right. Being left handed, I might be whisking wrong.

Actually, Jim hit it one the head. You could use one of those campfire iron pots. They're dirt cheap and there is nothing about them that says, "Look at me, I'm the center of attention at this here fire," unlike some tetsubins I've met.

Michael

Michael

I wonder how much iron actually enters the water heated by an unglazed tetsubin. The reason I ask is that, beyond a certain point, dissolved iron can ruin tea's taste and texture with a scummy film.

/Lew

While I know nothing about matcha prep and enjoyment, I have heard that the very best of matcha used by the Ura Senke and Omote Senke is prepared meticulously. Those who know their matcha would likely dissent your statement. As far as I've been told, the fundamental differences of top notch matcha from loose leaf tea are:

- The stems and veins of the tea leaves are all removed. Only the softest, fleshy part of the plant is used for authentic matcha production. This is a very time consuming step.

- The tea leaves have to be ground into a fine powder using granite wheels, at a very slow pace. Only 1 oz of product is made with over 1 hour of grinding. Any faster, and the friction will "cook" the tea and kill its nutritional properties.

At this quality level, it can cost USD $2,500/lb.

(Per Brian Takeda, Director of Aiya Corp)

Michael, if it's inferior to *your* personal taste, then there is no argument there. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine it being "generally inferior" to loose leaf tea.

MarshalN:

Do earthenware kettles crack eventually over normal use over stove (no accident), though?

~Phyll

Lewis Per>

I'm still trying weighing this question. The ensuing discussion is helpful.

MarshalN wrote:

Hi Phyll,

Your points are well taken, the information you provide is genuinely interesting, and I present here and presented previously nothing but my opinions. My fault for not making that clear. Comments below interspersed.

Undoubtedly true, and appropriately. I have nothing but my opinions, based on experience, which is limited.

And since it is a time consuming step, one needs to wonder what is happening to the freshness of the leaf while the leaf is under the knife being surgically altered. The greener the leaf, the faster green is killed, the better, I *think*. Perhaps we have a two edged sword here.

Again, slowly grinding fresh green growth into powder would by its nature change the tea from green-fresh-bright to something else.

I'm not impressed, although I see why the cost is so high.

I know you don't know how much that counts for. I don't know mr. Takeda or the Aiya Corp. Do they produce matcha?

Of course I meant nothing other than that. I should have stated it outright. My bad. Sorry. My conjecturing about the effect of the process on the freshness is theoretical, just ideas to think on. When this thread dies down, I'll most likely go out, get some moderately high quality matcha, and have at it in a tea bowl. I've got a couple teabowls tucked away perhaps worthy of the experiment.

snip

Michael Plant wrote: When this thread

Good luck with your experiment. But make several ones. Whisking matcha well makes a great difference on the result of your tea. The water must be hot enough and you must whisk continuously so to achieve a thick layer of fine bubbles and no deposit on the bottom. The foam will be thickest where you take the bamboo whisk away, creating like a little island.

Stephane

Hi Michael,

All in the spirit of learning and sharing of info... :)

Aiya Corp, as far as I know, is the largest grower/manfacturer/supplier of green matcha in the world.

Here is the source of my information through my blog discussion with Brian Takeda:

This is his bio...he's the regional director in Canada.

Regards,

~ Phyll

Michael Plant wrote:

Hi all--

It's me aga> I have heard it said -- I have *no* experience -- that the

The hot water for tea ceremony ritual is normally boiled in an iron kettle called a "kama." This differs from a "tetsubin" in that a tetsubin has a handle and a spout, while a kama has no handle, has a lid on top, and you dip water out of it with a bamboo ladle. The

*materials* of the two, however, are the same.

Tea professionals (cha-jin) talk about how the iron of the kettle improves the taste of the matcha, but, honestly, I'm not convinced that many of them are very interested in the nuances of the taste of the tea (I wouldn't go as far as Michael in saying that it's about everything

*except* the tea, but the gist is right: the tea ceremony is such an agglomeration of rich symbolism that it's hard to regularly focus on the taste of the tea.)

In case there are other tea ceremony followers here, I should note that there *are* special tea ceremony "games" (called cha-kabuki in Omote-Senke) in which the flavor of the tea is the key focus. The Omote version (which I know best) involves the preparation of 5 bowls of tea, using matcha from three different sources. The first two bowls are identified (with ritual names, not the actual identifiers for the actual tea; a ritual equivalent to saying "This is Tea A, and this is Tea B.") The next three bowls are served, and the guests make a record of what they think bowls #3, #4 and #5 are (A, B, or not A/B). I've only done this a few times (it's a relatively rare ritual), and, truth be known, most tea professionals are not very good at this game (and they don't seem especially embarassed about this fact, either!) (I'm working without my field notes right now-- writing in a cafe while Christmas-travelling-- This is more-or-less right though.)

Generally, even among elites, if the prepared matcha is critiqued, it has to do with the *texture* or *temperature* of the drink. Is it lumpy? (shoulda sifted the tea better!). Is the tea too hot? (learning to control the heat of the water in the kettle, especially when using charcoal, is tricky stuff.) These people also pay more attention to the taste/texture, etc., of the matcha when they are drinking it in non-ceremonial settings (served very informally, perhaps to a guest, while sitting on the couch and half-watching TV!)

On the other hand, at the end of a long tea gathering (lasting between

4 and 8 hours), especially on a cold winter day, the water that has been in the kettle the whole time is served by itself, with no extra anything, in cups normally used to serve leaf tea. This drink is called "sayu" (literally "white hot water"), and, as this is part of the wind-down after the ceremony, there aren't dozens of things competing for your attention, and people *do* drink it with focus and usually discuss the flavor of the water. I've heard some people say it is "sweet," and others say it is "flat," (but in a *nice* kinda way.) The sweetness is attributed to the iron content, the flatness to the fact that the water was boiled/simmered so long.

I have *not* heard anyone making detailed comments about how the iron-boiled water affects the *tea* in any detailed way... only when the hot water is consumed by itself.

If the long-boiled water is not served at the end of the ritual (for example, on a sweltering summer day), lots of cha-jin will pour that hot water into a thermos bottle (used only for this purpose) and save it for the next tea gathering. (The use of the thermos bottle seems to be about it being a well-designed tool to carry liquids, not about conserving the heat).

*Part* of the value of this long-boiled water is symbolic: The hot water is the left-over result of long and intense ritual, and thus needs to be treated with respect. (This is *not* to totally discount the special qualities of long-boiled water).

And-- for what it's worth-- most people in Japan with a professional interest in tea (tea ceremony professionals or tea dealers) consider matcha to be the pinnacle of Japanese tea production. Yes, there are different grades of matcha, and yes, there are wonderful leaf-teas that are the result of exacting production standards, but even so, culturally, matcha is the prize. This doesn't mean that everybody

*likes* matcha, even in Japan! It's just that, culturally, as a category, it is accorded the highest status among all teas.

Gotta run-- Happy New Year to everybody! 来年もよろしくお願いします！　(Rainen mo yorosiku onegai-simasu! Please be nice to me next year too!)

james-henry holland

Tea Masters snipped-for-privacy@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com12/27/06

11:50stephane snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com

OK, and thanks for the advice. I'll do it as you say. I'll get the Matcha from Ito En. They have a NYC store. Michael

major snippage

And that's its strength, not its weakness, and it enlarges our sense of what "tea" is. I spoke with a friend a couple days ago whose tea teacher is focused at the moment on the tea itself separated from the things around it. No criticism, but there are many ways to tea, eh?

Interesting, and pleasing that the tea professionals aren't overly concerned with their failure to ID the teas. Quite different from the Chinese tea masters purported to be able to identify the stream whence came the water, and the tea specific to a particular tree -- almost.

Lew Perin's comment about slimy films on flat tasting water associated with iron is something I'd experienced in England from the tap. I guess we ought to actually introduce an overdose of iron into boiling water to test this.

Special qualities good or bad? Normally, we think bad.

What about Gyokuro? Is it considered a class act or a second cousin?

OK, will do. You have once again tooted your one note with skill and insight. BTW, can a Gai Jin be a Cha Jin?

Michael