I have been an exclusive green tea drinker, but because of comments on in this group, and a chance encounter with Rishi Pu-er at a local store, I bought some pu-er. I know it is probably not as good as a tael purchased on eBay and drop-shipped from China, but I am a neophyte. In the flyer accompany the tea (which was loose, and dark grey, sort of like pi lo in shape (sorry, don't drink black/red so can only compare to green)), it stated,
"Pu-erh is widely consumed throughout Asia and Europe for its time-tested health and slimming properties." It continues describing studies that pu, "reduces cholesterol, cleanses the bloodstream, assists with slimming and works to detoxify the body of impurities from a heavy meat diet. . . [it] is also known to relieve hangovers and constipation."
Hmm . . . I bought it to try (not so bad, but I don't have anything to compare it to. It is definitely not like greens. Earthy, which was nice). I did not buy it for slimming, cleansing, detoxing, etc.
My question, is this just marketing hype? I usually get my greens thru Upton and Adagio, but Rishi has a Jade Cloud green that isn't bad. It didn't seem like Rishi is the type to market to health food holistic types. I was wondering about the "slimming" aspect also. No, I'm not going on a diet, but what is that about?
Everyone makes these claims about the pu. The French consume it because of the perceived slimming properties. Yeah like they have a weight problem. Any tea can be marketed as slimming because it acts as a diuretic. The Chinese drink it more as a medicinal herb than tea. As with all marketing hype there is a little bit of truth. You can find Asian 'scientific' studies that back them up. I can vouch for the claim it soothes the stomach after a heavy meal. So much so I drink it after every evening meal. Another claim you hear is 'quenches thirst'. The other night I ate a hunk of pickled Chinese cabbage. After the last bite I realized it probably wasn't a good idea. A couple of hours later my stomach is on fire and I'm sucking water from a hose. I brew a strong cup of the cooked pu and the bad sensation was almost immediately snuffed. I wouldn't recommend trying this yourself. I don't think any OTC gastro salve would have worked. You'll be more healthy if you find a tea you like drinking more and not less because you think it is a medicine. If you like the holistic approach then drink all the processed tea types because they each have something to offer, supposedly.
where I have listed most of the relevant sites that I could find on the subject. I dont think there is really any conclusive evidence but there does seem to be a smoking gun.
As for the slimming claims I do not put much faith in them. Anyone who has met me in person would question those claims as well. I am a very large man, both tall and wide, and drinking puerh does not appeared to have changed that at all, and I do drink a tremendous amount of puerh.
I checked out your website, Mike. Nice information. Thank-you.
I've been drinking green for years because I like it. I've largely ignored all the new fad info I've seen popping up about it. I am amused by all the new "green tea" drinks popping up on shelves. I view them mostly marketing gimmicks to sell overly sweet sodas and juices.
I have enjoyed the Rishi pu-er I recently purchased. Now, one more question, I would like to find a nice green pu-er that is reasonably priced for everyday consumption. I am not a pu connoisseur yet, but I am intrigued by that earthy flavor and would like to try more.
Any suggestions? I looked around on my own and was a little overwhelmed. I would appreciate any help.
"Mike Petro" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Thanks for the medical claims page, Mike. I have found that since starting to drink strong pu-erh most mornings, I'm becoming less wide. (Honesty forces me to add that my current diet consits of two modest low-carb meals a day, plus a lot of walking.) I think the pu-erh helps, though. But people's bodies are biochemically so complex that they can react differently to the same food, so that the old proverb "One man's meat..." is true both figuratively and litterally.
If you have access to a Chinatown you could start there. Nothing much over a penny/gram for cooked or uncooked puerh. What is really common in Chinatown is
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which is a 100g/green/Tuocha. So doing the math in my Chinatown this goes for a buck. The 100g/black/Tuocha you normally find is
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For some reason you'd pay a $1.50 in my Chinatown. The word Tuocha loosely means 'bird nest' or for us ex southerners a half hollowed cantelope. There are other Tuochas on the websites but these two should be the cheapest comparatively. The smallest tuocha I've seen is 5g and the largest
250g but 100g typical. I think the Rishi you described is cooked. The terms sheng,uncooked,unripe,fresh are used to describe the green puerh and shu,cooked,ripe to describe the black puerh. It is overwhelming but shop around and watch your pocketbook because you don't have to spend much money to get started. When you move to the beengs or cakes which are usually 340g+ then you pay more because you get more and more in demand so start with the tuochas first.
Jim
Lara Burt> Thank-you Mike and Jim for your responses.
Now, I'm as pure a green tea purist as they come. But that Lipton sweetened green tea that's out there now, it's not bad. Provided you drink it the right way and in the proper frame of mind. First off, don't think of this as tea. It's tea-based. And second, under no circumstances drink this stuff straight -- it's far too sweet for that. But cut it with about an equal amount of seltzer water (club soda is too sharp) and a lot of ice, and you get a very refreshing and thirst-quenching summer drink. A pleasant alternative to all the neon-colored beverages found in typical groceries.
You have a point. But I avoid all those drinks. Yuck.
My son ordered a Green Tea Frappacino at Barnes & Noble. Ever try one of those? Tasted like . . . a vanilla milk shake with lingering notes of grass clippings.
alas, no Chinatown. There is a Southeast Asian Market in the closest big city. Next time I'm up there, I'll check. However, I was disappointed in their green selection.
Thank-you for the information, though. I will start online and work my way through the pu's. I just didn't want to get something low-priced but low-quality to start that would scare me back to greens exclusively.
Has anyone else tried the iced green tea at Panera Bread? They mix in a little passion fruit and papaya juice. I like it so much I ask for it with no ice, so the cup holds a lot more of the tea. Good stuff.
I was checking around on Ebay China yesterday and the 97 vintage ripe is 990y and the 92 vintage green is 1590y. Your blemishes may vary. Maybe my circa mid eighties ripe is worth something after all and my Millenium green just biding it's time. Maybe I should stick those 30 year old tins of Poo Nee in the safe.
Jim
Lara Burt> alas, no Chinatown. There is a Southeast Asian Market in the closest big
You can, if the pu'er are authentically from the right factory to begin with.
There are so many "copies" of the originals that some reputable vendors are selling them online without even realising it.
eBay is one of the best and worst place to find good pu'ers; you are taking a real gamble, and the stakes are higher if you are going for the expensive
80s and early 90s collectibles.
Besides factories and make, the quality of the ageing also plays a great part in determining if your Poo Nee is going to worth a lot more or just a poo's worth.
Lara, the teas Jim described above would be different from the Rishi ones, because the ones that you have ould be from southside of Yunnan, while the ones (tuochas) mentioned by Jim are from the Upper central regin of Yunnan. They used different plant varietal and processing method, but it is worth the try. The French began their more concrete lab explorations on pu'er on these tuochas from the Xia Guan region in the state of Dali, back in 60s and
70s. Most of the health claims that we are told about are results of those findings as well as later works.
They are mass produced and machine pressed, and the price range for these tuochas are relatively cheaper than other pu'er teas.
If you are buying from a Chinatown visit, or getting it off eBay, there's a signature on the tuocha that tells you if it is the real thing or fake. Look for a 'G' imprint on the cake, it shouldn'tbe too difficult to locate. There have been several explanations to the name of the tea, but it doesn't mean 'bird nest' as Jim mentioned. The two better known ones are: TUO comes from the name of the Tuo River, where the people used it as a transportation means in the early days to tranport this tea; and TUO as in a bowl-shaped bent in the river where the boats take shelter. Some of the early writing for the character TUO was different from the present one, and some took to infer that it meant MOUND, as the shape of the tea also suggests.
Good point about the "G" Danny. However, the "G" mark is only used for xia guan "te ji" tuo cha (first production year is 2003) and "jia ji" tuo cha (after 1995, fully used in 1996). So there left some time line for some vendors to use lower grade of tuo cha from Xia Guan Tea Factory like the "Yi Ji" as being prior 1995-1996 "Jia Ji" tuo cha. Or the worse thing, to use a non xia guan tuo cha and sell it as a prior
1995-1996 "Jia Ji" tuo cha.
So besides the package and some of the particular marks, the best thing is get to know the character of the products that you want to purchase. ;-)
Oh just remembered - that includes the Jin Si (Golden Thread) Tuocha as well (2003/4)...which has the G imprint...
...that is, if you are particular over what you are purchasing, or intending them as investment. On the whole, the general advice is this : as long as you enjoy the tea, just follow your heart and nose...there are times when one gets too overwhelmed with the information chasing after vintages that one misses the essence - which is to enjoy the tea, and then loses the desire all together because one is afraid that one might get a fake instead of an original. For investment, one must really know the history behind the product...how about a master class, Jing, on the what, how, and when on collectible pu'ers?
These are the first examples of what has been available in my Chinatown forever being sold at 'aged' prices. The aging I've seen so far is verified by the wrapper no longer produced or with distinctive blemishes only verified by factory records. There is no mention of taste. However all arguments are reduced too it is most probably a fake or not properly cared for even if aged. There might be a collector's market but the current prices are strictly speculation. I'll hang on to my mid eighties ripe tuocha, 30+ year old Poo in the original tins, and a stack of Millenium green tuocha with factory run information stamped on bottom of box with the date along with the other teas from over the decades because I never throw anything away which makes me a hoarder and not a collector of beanie babies. I am a serious collector in another genre and fortunately some things can't be faked. Or if you're in one where it is common make sure nobody can tell the difference if you're the seller.
You are quite correct Jing but it is also easy for you, Seb, and Danny to say this because all you have to do is walk down to the market and select from hundreds of puerhs from dozens of vendors. It is MUCH more difficult for the Western consumer.
The real problem for the American consumer is identifying a trustworthy vendor. Over 8 out of 10 Western Tea vendors don't know enough about puerh to make good buying decisions and they in turn pass on their bad purchases to their unsuspecting customers. Most people in the US are forced to deal with a paltry selection at their local Chinatown or Asian supermarket, or else buy online. If you buy online you cannot touch, smell, or taste the tea before you buy. You are pretty much at the mercy of the vendor. Is the vendor honest? Does the vendor know enough to not only know real from fake but also good from bad, dry storage from wet storage, wild from cultivated, etc.
So I ask, how does the Western consumer get to know the character of different puerhs? If they are lucky enough to hook up with a trustworthy vendor then they stand a chance, otherwise they pretty much will NEVER get to know the character until they invest a lot of money and time and get ripped off a lot. The average consumer will give up first, for this reason I think puerh, other than commodity loose black, is a long way from being widely accepted in this country.
I have gotten to the point where I will seldom buy Menghai or Xia Guan online anymore because 1) there are so many fakes and it is difficult to weed them out by just looking at a picture on a website especially if the vendor is trying to hide it, 2) both of these factories have raised their prices so high that they just arent worth pursuing any more considering the risk of getting a forgery.
Quite frankly when someone new to puerh asks I seldom recommend Menghai or Xia Guan simply because it opens up a can of worms trying to ensure they know enough to get the real thing. I generally recommend some of the smaller factories that are a quarter of the price and are not big enough for anyone to try to forge them yet. I also recommend that they buy from one of the vendors located in China as their odds of getting good tea are much better that way. Stay away from Menghai and Xia Guan, particularly on Ebay, unless you know the vendor very well.
NEVER buy aged tea online unless you have a long standing relationship with the vendor and know that they are knowledgable enough to not get ripped off themselves. There are only a few online vendors I would recommend for aged tea and they are, in no particular order: Jing Teashop Teahub Teaspring Grandtea Sunsing I have personaly obtained authentic aged puerh from all of these vendors. REMEMBER that any aged tea will be very expensive. Dont expect to get 20 year old Bingcha for $50, they are ether not that old, or they have been stored poorly, or they are garbage tea to begin with. Aged puerh is so hot in China and Taiwan right now that it is also very much a case of "what the market will bear". Without exception any time I have been presented with an opportunity that sounded too good to be true, IT WAS. There is no such thing as good authentic CHEAP aged puerh.
Mike Petro
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"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed." Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.
You are quite correct Jing but it is also easy for you, Seb, and Danny to say this because all you have to do is walk down to the market and select from hundreds of puerhs from dozens of vendors. It is MUCH more difficult for the Western consumer.
The real problem for the American consumer is identifying a trustworthy vendor. Over 8 out of 10 Western Tea vendors don't know enough about puerh to make good buying decisions and they in turn pass on their bad purchases to their unsuspecting customers. Most people in the US are forced to deal with a paltry selection at their local Chinatown or Asian supermarket, or else buy online. If you buy online you cannot touch, smell, or taste the tea before you buy. You are pretty much at the mercy of the vendor. Is the vendor honest? Does the vendor know enough to not only know real from fake but also good from bad, dry storage from wet storage, wild from cultivated, etc.
So I ask, how does the Western consumer get to know the character of different puerhs? If they are lucky enough to hook up with a trustworthy vendor then they stand a chance, otherwise they pretty much will NEVER get to know the character until they invest a lot of money and time and get ripped off a lot. The average consumer will give up first, for this reason I think puerh, other than commodity loose black, is a long way from being widely accepted in this country.
I have gotten to the point where I will seldom buy Menghai or Xia Guan online anymore because 1) there are so many fakes and it is difficult to weed them out by just looking at a picture on a website especially if the vendor is trying to hide it, 2) both of these factories have raised their prices so high that they just arent worth pursuing any more considering the risk of getting a forgery.
Quite frankly when someone new to puerh asks I seldom recommend Menghai or Xia Guan simply because it opens up a can of worms trying to ensure they know enough to get the real thing. I generally recommend some of the smaller factories that are a quarter of the price and are not big enough for anyone to try to forge them yet. I also recommend that they buy from one of the vendors located in China as their odds of getting good tea are much better that way. Stay away from Menghai and Xia Guan, particularly on Ebay, unless you know the vendor very well.
NEVER buy aged tea online unless you have a long standing relationship with the vendor and know that they are knowledgable enough to not get ripped off themselves. There are only a few online vendors I would recommend for aged tea and they are, in no particular order: Jing Teashop Teahub Teaspring Grandtea Sunsing I have personaly obtained authentic aged puerh from all of these vendors. REMEMBER that any aged tea will be very expensive. Dont expect to get 20 year old Bingcha for $50, they are ether not that old, or they have been stored poorly, or they are garbage tea to begin with. Aged puerh is so hot in China and Taiwan right now that it is also very much a case of "what the market will bear". Without exception any time I have been presented with an opportunity that sounded too good to be true, IT WAS. There is no such thing as good authentic CHEAP aged puerh.
Mike Petro
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"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed." Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.
Thank-you all for suggestions, (some of which I don't follow because I am such a Pu-er novice) However, I decided against eBay until I have a good feel for what I like. I wanted some new greens (lu an guapian, tai ping hou kui, meng ding huang ya) and I added two pu-ers (picked mostly because of $ and small size):
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