2004 Gambero Rosso Tre Bicchieri

Yes, things do shift around at each edition. Partly because the two organizations, Slow Food and Gambero Rosso, take turns for each region.

Despite being very involved in Slow Food, I almost take no notice of this guide. Too many international style wines, all very similar, all easily challenged by new world wines at lower prices. I think that this guide is far too influenced by Gambero Rosso and specifically by some of its critics like Cernilli.

Signs of change: the recent appearance of people like Gravner on the list. A bit late, mind you, because Gravner's wonderful wines are so far off in the other direction that they might scare some people... ;-))

Mike

I could not agree more with you. Tuscany is the worst (is Cernilli responsible for it?). Where is Biondi Santi, Soldera, Lisini (the "real" Brunellos) and then they give 3 bicchieri to Banfi!!! come on that is not Brunello!!! and all those horrible super-tuscans get their

3 glasses. When I was in Italy I talked to a lot of people who was turning against Gambero Rosso, maybe it will force them to change.

Mike have you ever seen a wine over there called Isole E Olena Chiperallo.

Another was Falesco Merlot Umbrio.

The first is very allocated here and was very good.

The second was also very good, widely available, and fairly resonable here. Around $15 per bottle.

Just wondering as our selections here, especially in the area of USA I live is limited on Italian wines. But these are some of my favorites.

Cepparello I believe, good value. Not elegant, but good cncentration, cherry?

I know their Montiano, again good QPR but as I recall, too bad there is so much oak, the fruit could have been left to express itself better.

Mike

I think you mean "Cepparello". It sells for about $65.00. I don't think it's allocated they just don't make much of it....about 4000 cases and it always gets a big number from WS so all of the folks who buy from the numbers suck it up. Bi!!

"Dale Williams" ha scritto

VINCHIO

I tasted this one at Alba, yesterday (Sunday 12), and I found it impressive. The man at the stand, also, was a nice guy so we talked about theyr presence in the "3 bicchieri" list. He told me that they were the first, in many years, co-op winery to get that award in Piedmont, and he said that this is due to a particular mind-set of the people at gambero rosso about co-ops: never give a damn about them. In effect, looking at some "3 bicchieri" lists from the past, I can see that there are no "social wineries" (co-ops) listed in there. Why do they behave like that? Do they dislike common people gathering and working as well as, if not better than, private wineries? This Barbera is the living proof that also co-ops can give great results.

BTW: the stand clerk told me that they worked at around 48 quintals (48 per 100Kg) per hectare, and that's a very limited yeld, yelding a very nice product.

Someone is starting to wonder upon which is the limit of reduced yeld, or, IOW, how long con one reduce the yeld before reaching the natural limit of the vines. One could thin out the grapes upto a production of a tenth of grape per plant, but would it be qualitatively superior to grapes coming from someone who thinned out the production donw to a quart of grape per plant? I heard recently about people thinning out theyr grapes to the point that they get just half grape from every plant. It that worth the effort (and the loss in terms of quantity) or have we gone over the limit thus cutting and thinning just for the sake to write "20 quintals per hectare" on the winery description page?

Vilco

Well, that is not quite exact. On the 2002 issue there were dozens of Cantine Sociali, including the great ones like sardinian Santadi (3 tre-bicchieri, 4 due-bicchieri) and south-tyrolian San Michele Appiano (4 tre-bicchieri, 8 due-bicchieri), and many more

To be fair, I would say that great coops are the exception. There are more in Italy than in France, over here I can think of the Cave d'Eztezargues making great wine, and no other...

Ah, yes, in french terms that works out to about 35 hl/ha. But be careful of such figures, yields per hectare are an average, and in many cases the parcels include large areas with dead plants. Also, planting density makes a big difference, you can have 300 to 10000 plants per hectare. A better measure would be yield per plant, as the Swiss do...

Other than the obvious case of botrytis wines (under 9 hl/ha often), I have had some very low yield carignan to die for...

Ciao Vilco

Mike

IMHO an ex. of the wines I find boaring and disappointing. In our family the name of such wines is 'steroid wine' - a bug load of muscles with almost no skeleton to support it. A lot of theese modern wines er made to please, but they can't keep the interest after the first glass (stil IMHO).

Another surprise to me was the Barricadiero fro Aurora in Marche. They make wonderfull whites and also their Rosso Piceno Superiore is excellent, but the Baricadiero was dropped by me this year because of its almost sweet softness without the slightest trace of terroir and owerwhelming oak.

regards Jan

"Mike Tommasi" ha scritto

dozens of

Santadi (3

Appiano

Well, do you see any "3 bicchieri" to co-ops in Piedmont?

Vilco

Barbaresco '99 - PRODUTTORI DEL BARBARESCO

Mike wrote Too many international style wines, all very similar, all easily challenged by new world wines at lower prices.

That was my feeling at the Tre Bicchieri tasting last year- how many fruit forward new -oak wines do you need to taste, any of which could have come from Cali?

I think it's encouraging that this year some producers that don't fit the New Wave -they've let in Bruno Giacosa before, but nice to see G. Mascarello.

Sven wrote: Where is Biondi Santi, Soldera, Lisini (the "real" Brunellos) and then they give 3 bicchieri to Banfi!!! come on that is not Brunello!!

Sven, I like Lisini. And I'd like Soldera if I could afford it. But I personally think for the last 15 years Biondi-Santi has been coasting on reputation.I liked the '97 Biondi-Santi Brunello better than others from recent vintages I've tried, though still don't think it offers very good QPR, since it retails for about 3X Pertimali, Uccelliera, Lisini.

I've enjoyed some Banfi normales (don't remember having the '98 Poggio alle Mura), not the best Brunellos, but they give typcity without the over the top oak of some new-wave producers.

Dick, if you look the 2000 Cepparello was on the list. As to Falesco, I agree the Montiano is overoaked, though a nice wine. The Merlot is ok, but loosing its QPR as it edges up (the Vitiano, too) Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

The Merlot Umbria I like as its more reasonable priced. The Montiano I tried I did not care for as much as the Umbia at less than 1/3 the cost.

The Vitiano I have had tremendous bottle variation from the same case of wine. Some outstanding and some quite poor in my opinion. I do not understand how that can happen that way. That might account for why a winespectator would have trashed it when Robert Parker praised it. The answer could have been in Bottle Variation.

But why would that occur in wine. There was not heat damage I could see with the corks. It was same vintage, same case. I cut the case open at home myself. This was the 1997/1998 year I noticed and stopped buying Vitiano after that.