88 Doisy

Let me expose my ignorance. On more than one occasion the issue of "detectable" botrytis has been mentioned in this newsgroup, particularly with respect to LH Rieslings and Sauternes, whether in the nose or the taste. I've not had many LH Rieslings (and mostly from Calif.) but have had lots of 1st growth Sauternes (Rieussec, La Tour Blanche, Guiraud, Suduiraut, Coutet, Climens) mostly from '86 and '88 with some smattering of '83 and '89 and '90 (and less '71, '95, and '97_. How would you characterize the taste/smell/"character" of botrytis absent a "with"/"without" comparison?

TIA.

-- Regards,

- Roy

=*=*Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

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A suitable place to insert a response to my recent conversation with Ian Hoare on botrytis and German Beerenausleses. If ever I should come to Corrèze and dine at his place, the entree should be crow... Inquiring a friend winemaker in Mosel recently he stated flatly: To reach B.A. sugar levels there *must* be botrytis! The guy is less than 30 years old and so should be updated on modern winemaking :-) My contention that I had had B.A.'s without botrytis then is wrong - and therefore there must be different sensitivities - I know I've had strongly botrytized wines, even at Auslese levels :-) and that is an easily recognizable flavour once you've had it. Describing ii is more difficult, however. How about a strong raisiny component? Anders

Salut/Hi Anders Tørneskog,

Butting in!

le/on Thu, 03 Jun 2004 16:33:24 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

I'd modify that to say that there _must_ be concentration of the grape juice. That's (IMO the FACT). As to how the concentration is achieved, it has to be either by Botrytis OR by passerillage. My experience is that in all the Beerenauslesen wines I've drunk, I think I've recognised the symptoms of Botrytis. But theoretically, it is indeed possible to reach 125 Oechsle by air drying. I'm sure you see the difference.

Grin!. But sometimes the oldies know a thing or two!

I'd not necessarily say that, Anders. The fact that _I_'ve not, doesn't mean that _you_ haven't. As I said before, it could be that you've had some Beerenauslesen made from grape varieties where the varietal flavours have dominated (perhaps even masked) the effect of the rot.

Hmm... I'd be inclined to say that there's often - usually - a component of crystallised or dried stone or citrus fruit. Dried apricots, perhaps, or (in the case of some 6 putts tokaji aszu) orange marmalade. I tend to associate "raisiny" more with passerillé, along with flavours that are reminiscent of over ripe apples. Moselles have a completely different appley flavour. Which just goes to show how HARD it is to put words to flavours, especially without resorting to analogies. "Like apples" "Like white peaches".

"Ian Hoare" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Hi Ian, Drinking mainly Mosels, passerillage (?) is not what I expect. Other grapes than Riesling are not an option... even when some Elblings and Kerners have crossed my way :-).

Dried apricots or Sevilla marmalade sound more like it, a certain bitterness amid the sweetness, perhaps? Still, I'm groping for the exact description for a botrytised Mosel Riesling... Anders