TN: SB & Barbera, with question re cooking wines

a couple of clarifications:

For our international members, the Superbowl is the championship for the professional version of American football. An occasion for many parties, though this year we stayed home..

My definitions might be a little confusing. For my term "assertive", maybe replace with "floral/aromatic". I tend to cook with the less flowery grape varietals.

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Mightily snipped, but he did say

... > aren't any $5 whites I like enough to keep around as emergency party/cooking ... > wines.

After lurking this group for a couple of weeks, I am certainly not on an enconmic nor oenologic plane to argue with with y'all.

My preference is decent red wine--Cabernet Sauvignon and ChdP are favorites. Costco and Trader Joe's serve me well.

But to Dale's question, on a recent trek to Trader Joe's, I picked up a bottle of Columbia Crest '02 Gewürztaminer which I have have sampled and found quite acceptable. $3.99 in Southern California.

Carl

Dale, I'm in your camp re white cooking wines. I tend to steer clear of anything on the aromatic side, for no good reason other than worrying that it might obscure the foreground of the dish, if you take my meaning. For cheap, decent white cooking wines, I tend to use SBs, minor white Bordeaux and Pinot Grigios. I can usually find some reasonable examples in the $4-7 range...

I haven't had the 2002, but the 2001 made a stronger impression on me than you report here, Dale.

Mark Lipton

I agree with trying to avoid powerful whites for cooking. I also lean toward SB as a reasonably priced benign addition, but am always reluctant to pull a $$$ cork for a half cup or less of cooking ingredient, particularly if the drinking wine is going to be red when the meal is served. (Quiet, you in the back there about the appropriateness of that!)

I've found that there is always a bottle of dry vermouth in the liquor cabinet and since the usual rate of consumption averages a teaspoon or two a week in dry martinis, it works quite nicely as a "dry white wine" for cooking. Wouldn't do it with Italian (red) vermouth, but the French (white) is perfect.

Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Dale, for me this is the perfect use for the Sauvignon Blanc version of Two Buck Chuck. It's always fine for cooking and depending on which batch it is, it can even be adequate for a glass while you're cooking. At $1.99 (in California), the price is right and "Charles Shaw" on the label should eliminate the need for a separate "do not drink" label ;^)

- Mark W.

Hey, I though B/B+ was pretty good for an $11 wine. :) I thought it the equivalent of the similarly priced Babich, and a step behind say Craggy Range or Cloudy Bay. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Hey, if its a 1/2 cup I'll pull and we'll enjoy the rest. But in this case I needed about 1/2 bottle (double recipe), and didn't want open a $25 Burg.

I love cooking with vermouth, but would think the aromatics might cause the same kind of issues Viognier, Gewurztraminer, etc cause. But will keep in mind.

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Yes, I should just give up on the idea of having the wine be something I'd enjoy, and just stock a house cooking wine (neutral and cheap). But that's no fun!

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

I have to tell you about a once in a life time event. I had a bad experience with Grgich Hills once and I decided the next week, when I needed a white wine to cook with in a sauce, that I would use a bottle of that DARN Grgich Chard! Yes, way too expensive to use for a sauce that cooked down and contained plenty of shrooms and garlic, but WOW. I had made that sauce dozens of times, but it never tasted that good! I don't recommend going to that extreme, but the wine quality makes a difference, especially when you end up using a larger amount.

I have used Gewutz, Viognier and Riesling in cooking and have enjoyed them when the wine works with the flavors. In my experience, wine aromas are so volatile in wines that the aroma shouldn't ever matter if your going to cook it for more then a few min. on high.

I have to tell you about a once in a life time event. I had a bad experience with Grgich Hills once and I decided the next week, when I needed a white wine to cook with in a sauce, that I would use a bottle of that DARN Grgich Chard! Yes, way too expensive to use for a sauce that cooked down and contained plenty of shrooms and garlic, but WOW. I had made that sauce dozens of times, but it never tasted that good! I don't recommend going to that extreme, but the wine quality makes a difference, especially when you end up using a larger amount.

I have used Gewutz, Viognier and Riesling in cooking and have enjoyed them when the wine works with the flavors. In my experience, wine aromas are so volatile in wines that the aroma shouldn't ever matter if your going to cook it for more then a few min. on high.

Hi there,

I am intrigued that you had this problem with the menetou-salon:

as I showed a bottle of this at a tasting last weekend (2001 vintage) from Majestic and it was likewise off. I didn't see a real corky smell but the wine was dull in colour and smelt 'flat' and tasted - well, awful.

Are you in the UK? If this is a many-country problem then they have an issue!

The tasting note from Majestic is:

This example exhibits a pungent, herbaceous nose followed by rich, crisp, grassy flavours

but alas it was not!

Johnners

//>...so opened a Fournier Menetou- Salon. Ack! TCA reigns supreme.

I'm in US. I've never noticed a problem with Fournier's wines, but then I haven't had many recently (I used to be fond of their old vines Sancerre but haven't bought in a while). In any case my tasting wouldn't be extensive enough to be statistically relevant. But it is indeed possible for TCA to be a winery issue as opposed to only a cork issue, witness BV in the states.

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

thankyou

well, if they are reading - take note!

Johnners

Awatere is quite separate from the main growing area in the Wairau Valley. A different valley, different river, different climate. The two valleys run parallel about 20km apart.

--brian

Brian,

thanks for the clarification. I've seen the Wairau name a few times, though

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Well, Sauvignon blanc is a semi-aromatic grape. Better to leave it out of the range.

Vilco

Good point, but that depends very much on the style of Sauvignon Blanc. If you stick to white Bordeaux and the Loire, you're not getting wines that are overly aromatic as a rule. I agree, though, that using a typical Marlborough SB for cooking is probably not a great idea unless you know that the recipe works well with it.

Mark Lipton

Yes, it depends mainly on the specific wine. My typical sauvignons are from Friuli (Collio or COF) and they usually have a marked aromatic character, with the usual predominant green pepper-leaf nose. I still have to try Sauv's from outside of Italy, apart some bottles of Pouilly Fume'.

Vilco