Brew King Lodi Zinfandel versus Regina frozen juice

Hi all,

I've been lurking and learning for some time now and now am stumped by some questions a friend of mine and I have.

Some background. This spring I made a Brew King Lodi Old Vines Zinfandel kit and this past fall started a bucket of Regina California Zinfandel. Both my first attempts at making red wine from either a kit or 'fresh/frozen' juice. Both have StaVin Oak beans added so both are pretty similar. But, what can I expect the difference to be between the two? And, will the difference merit the 3x cost in price of the Brew King kit? The Brew King kit makes 6 US gallons versus the

5US gal. bucket of juice. I had to provide yeast, any finings and potassium metabisulphite, but that's only an extra ~$2.00 in materials. The juice costs us US $35/5 gallons versus the Brew King kit that runs locally for around $100 for 16 liters of concentrate. Can we expect a superior wine from the Brew King kit?

Thanks and cheers!

Brandon

Reply to
Brandon Greimann
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Well I, for one, would be interested in the result of your comparison. Especially with the cost difference. I have commented before on the high cost of the Estate Series and feel that they are over priced.

Although most of the red wine I make now is from BK Selection international etc I am always just a tad dissatisfied with the end result. I would qualify that. I have found that the Selection series together with their Limited edition kits give me the best result for red wine of any kit I have ever used -- except there is always that"je ne sais quoi" element in the end product which I blame on the method of extracting and fixing the colour of the juice -- presumably some sort of heat treatment. I have made just one kit of the Zin Old Vines Estate Series and it is under wraps for another six months more before I bottle. I will give some opinion on the wine then

I also tend to use a yeast of my own selection rather than the "never fail, overpower anything, yeast" that comes with the kit --which seems to produce a sameness regardless of the type of juice provided

Reply to
Pinky

Trevor, I concur with everything that you've said about the Brew King kits, except possibly the part about them being the best kits. So far the Cellar Craft WA State Merlot I started in the spring seems more promising, but still needs age to know for sure.

I did one of these Zin kits when they first came out (fermented it

08/2001). I would say that it's the most enjoyable BK red kit I've done (out of 6, most of which were other top-of-the-line ones). It does have quite a bit of true Zinfandel character to it, but it too lacks the freshness of any Zin made from fresh grapes. I think the primary problem is lack of aromatics. But it's still quite an enjoyable everyday wine.

The last couple of years I've been making most of my wine from cheap central CA valley grapes. I didn't do Zin last year but did this year with an extended maceration, and the results so far seem vastly more promising than the BK kit and also the most promising of any of my grape wines to date. It seems to be the only central valley varietal that I've done so far that stands well on its own and doesn't cry out for blending. At this point I'm thinking that I'll probably buy only Zin from the central valley fruit in the next couple of years, and for other varieties try getting some fruit from the interior of BC.

As for the Regina juice, you'll have to let us know how that turns out. I have a hard time believing that any red wine made from juice alone (no skins) will be truly decent in comparison to those made the normal way (fermented on the skins). You (Brandon) should consider trying to get the grapes themselves instead of the juice. The price will still be significantly cheaper than the kits or juice -- if you ignore the up-front cost of the equipment required, most of which will last a lifetime...

Cheers! Richard

Reply to
Richard Kovach

Richard I think that this is the basic problem with the "top end" red wine kits. After fermenting, bulk aging and bottling + further (oops sp!)aging in bottle they still only come out as a sort of average wine. As you say a "satisfactory wine" but after all that tlc and effort there are excellent supermarket offers which beat in quality and price the kit wines all the time. I restrict the adverse comments to the red wines only. I still find that most of the aged white wines I make are still superior in cost and quality. It is strange but it is the white wines that suffer from supermarket sales vis home made varieties - you have to be very careful about selecting white wines to take home but there are a very good selection of reds.

In respect of the original post I just wish I could buy fresh or frozen wine varietals juice in UK!

Reply to
Pinky

Well, come to Pittsburgh then and see for yourself. We do not have access to high quality grapes unless you are willing to pay Brehm prices. I am not.

I make reds from Regina and also buy Central Valley grapes. I have tried extended maceration, and see no major improvement. What I did this year was add the grape must to the juice, (It was all Cab this year.) I am not telling you they make big extracted reds, but what on earth are you expecting for $2 a bottle? To say they are not decent is just too big a stretch, they are decent table wines if made with care.

I also have access to Northeastern grapes, which averaged 12 brix and

12.5g/l TA. That was interesting.

All I am saying is you get what you pay for. Access to good fruit is everything, you can only do so much with average to poor quality fruit.

The easiest way to tell whether someone likes a wine is if they ask for a second bottle and I give a lot of wine away that started out as Regina juice.

I'm not trying to be testy here, I just think Regina makes good wine at a very good price. The Syrah seems to be the best from my persective. Regards, Joe

As for the Regina juice, you'll have to let us know how that turns

Reply to
Joe Sallustio

Yeah, I don't expect miracles here for $2/bottle. :) I think we would like to end up being able to make several consistently good varieties. I'd like to have a good Zin around (I used to buy Ravenswood $8 bottles by the case when I lived in the Bay Area.) Now they cost $12 outside Philadelphia and the whole winemaking process is great fun so I'm striving to make more or less a replacement for that (though not holding my breath). And a good chianti-style table/house red.

The reds and a decent 'every day' buttery Napa region (ala Rutherford Hill/Cuvaison/Clos Pegase wineries) Chardonnay and I'd be pretty happy for now. The Brew King Ltd. Ed. Napa Valley Chardonnay was my first kit and came out well. Followed by Luna Biancha and I think a blend of the two would fit my taste perfectly. I'm still letting them age (and letting the oak mellow out in the LB) so perhaps I'll have a better idea in 6 months?

I took a sniff in my Spagnols Amarone carboy last night and ooooh that smells good. But it's only a few months old and still in the carboy so I don't know what to expect there, either. The Zin was started in April 2003 and bottled I think around June. When I opened a bottle a few weeks ago the aromatics and flavor were noticably better/less harsh so I'm optimistic. I'll report in next year or so when the Regina's been bottled and aged for a while. It's fascinating to smell/taste what happens to this stuff over time.

I think for me making wine from fresh grapes is inevitable in a few years. Richard, please don't encourage me or my apartment will turn into a winery. :)

Thanks for your thoughts!

Brandon

Reply to
Brandon Greimann

I have found that Regina's and Lucerne are superior to Alexanders red juice. Tim

Reply to
Tim McNally

You will probably prefer that Regina Zin with oak, I like Ravenswood too. I use about 25 grams of Stavin beans per gallon on a red, but most people will tell you that is too much, so maybe start with half and see what you think. If you want to use chips, they work well too. I use at least a medium toast. I don't like the sawdust, but that is personal preference.

I make a Cab blend of Cab Sauv and Cab Franc with some Syrah at times from Regina; I have made most of the reds they sell. I think the best unblended ones are Syrah and Zin, so you will probably like what you are making. Regards, Joe

Reply to
Joe Sallustio

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