Clarification Engineered

Try a quick google search on the specific words "bentonite" "gelatin" "wine" and "fining". You'll get good answers to all the questions. Here's a good start:

thanks much . . . :) .... for the link. I did look. one problem i have is the gelaton package says to boil the stuff, and one of the old beer brewin bilbles i consulted says NEVER boil gelaton ....

when is it one should do the fining? and in which order? gelaton first?

Gelatin for wine doesn't need to be boiled, it goes in like a slurry and is made with warm water. You can buy regular know gelatin from the grocey store as long as you use unflavored.

I use bentonite alone on whites, no gelatin. i only use gelatin if the wine is really tannic, like drinking teas that brewed too long.

Grab Lum's book, it expains all of this very well. Here is the fining chapter:

Joe

Sorry to butt in, but gelatin does actually dissolve in warm water and should be used that way. As a slurry you won't get the full effect.

Tom S

I'm not sure what you mean Tom. When I mix it in warm water it doesn't exactly look like water anymore but it's not setting up either. It's kind of viscous, sort of like half and half. I would call that a slurry but maybe that's not the right term. I do use warm water and add it warm. You just need to stir a lot to get it to dissolve.

By the way, I have some overly oaked reds from that untoasted barrel; what do you think of using egg white or gelatin on that? I did some blending and that improves it, but pulling the oak down a bit might be a better way to go.

Joe

Yeah, you should alwayus add tannin if you do not want that completely stripped from your wine when using gelatin.

I only use gelatin to clear pectic hazes from drupe wines like apricot, peaches and the like.

The gelatin I use doesn't behave like that at all. It dissolves completely to a clear, brownish liquid. I buy mine from The Wine Lab. It's made for use in wine. Are you using Knox instead?

Either gelatin, skim milk or casein might do the trick. Try gelatin at 1 lb/1000 gal or skim milk at ~1 qt/1000 gal. Be sure to dilute the skim milk to 10% before addition or it'll curdle instantly and not work well. Use the gelatin at a similar concentration.

As for casein, I have no experience, but I've heard that it reduces oakiness.

Tom S

Yes, Knox is cheap and I can get it 24 hours a day... ;o) It turns a very pale yellow ( not much past clear) and the liquid has more surface tension that water. It's not gooey, in retrospect it is closer to thin (like skim milk) at the following concentration.

I just mixed some using your suggested rate for a 5 gallon batch; I used 2.5 g in 250 ml of warm water, the water was around 130 F. I got the wine moving with a good stir and added it in hot. I have a magnetic stirrer now; I finally got some good use out of it mixing up the gelatin.

Do you add yours to cold water and warm up or add it slowly to warm water?

Thanks, perfect. I have a few I want to try this on. How long till you can note the effectiveness? Margalit says wait 2 to 3 weeks and rack/ filter; would you just rack or counterfine and rack? I can't see filtering a red.

It doesn't really matter. I've done it both ways.

You'll be able to see when the wine's clear. I usually use kieselsohl with gelatin, but I don't think you have to - at least not in a red. It'll probably take several weeks to settle completely, but for a bench trial (750 ml) overnight will do.

Tom S

Thanks Tom.

Yeah, if you're going to use skim mik, dilute it with water, and try to inject it under the surface of the wine, stirring while you do it. You can use a large syringe if you have one, I use a turkey baster. The acid and alcohol will clump the casein rapidly, which is how it works, but you don't want clumps forming on top -- it may not settle.